Leica SL and Nikon D810

[Albert Andersen]

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Nikon D810 is a more professional camera than Leica SL. There are so many configuration options that can be tailored to individual needs.

When it comes to flash photography, the Leica hopelessly behind.

When we look at lenses, the Leica are many steps ahead.

The images are respectively Leica SL and Vario 24/90 and Nikon D810 and 24/70 2.8

Both lenses at 24 mm, ISO 100, 1/250 sec., f:5.6

Crop is from the lower right corner.

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Albert Andersen

[FlashGordonPhotography]

There's something wrong with your 24-70 Nikon if that's what it does at 5.6, assuming it's the second image.

 

Also I disagree with your assessment of the most "professional" body. As a working photographer I have my SL configured exactly as I want. My SL works with my Canon T/S lenses, which i use every day. My SL has a live histogram, image review in the viewfinder, an accurate artificial horizon, a quieter shutter, a no loss ISO 50 and an EVF. I use my SL with off camera flash systems every day. Just not with the limitations of an infrared based TTL system. All of which make my life as a working photographer easier and more efficient. I am not saying that other might find the D810 more suitable to their needs. I just don't agree with blanket statements that don't take the needs of the *professional* into account. Cameras are machines. They become professional when they are used by professionals. Both cameras satisfy tat description.

 

Gordon

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[ramarren]

Nikon D810 is a more professional camera than Leica SL. ...

I can't imagine what the point of this thread might be.

[R3D-D0T]

I think a more proper comparison would be the SL and D5, as the latter is meant to be used in similar settings as the SL. But both the D5/D810 are far more versatile than the SL, and at a better asking price.

 

Maybe when the SL has more lenses or even when the SL2 comes out...

 

[phongph]

Hi!

I traded in Nikon 810, 24-70 Nano and 70-200 Nano for Leica SL and SL 24-90 ASPH. I will never regret and look back!

Have a good day!

Thanks!

[Guest VVJ]

I traded in Nikon 810, 24-70 Nano and 70-200 Nano for Leica SL and SL 24-90 ASPH. I will never regret and look back!

 

 

Were you already an existing Leica shooter?  

 

From what I can observe most people who make a similar move did already have another Leica system like the M or the S or the Q.

 

I tend to agree with R3D-DOT above.  For most non-Leica shooters the system is still way too incomplete and hopefully Leica will be ready for the rest of the world when the SL2 comes out.

 

As often mentioned a roadmap would go a long way for people still sitting not the fence...

[Peter H]

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I don't agree that the SL is in some way less professional than the Nikons, because as Gordon points out, each professional user will make that decision for themselves and there's no universal rule about it.

 

But I do agree that a roadmap would be helpful to people planning their investments. Leica is different from the mass-producers and I believe it could benefit from taking a different course from them by being more open with its customers and potential customers so that they (we) can plan better and buy more confidently.

 

The instinct to avoid openness is strong and deep-seated, but not always a good thing.

[LocalHero1953]

There are two aspects to this argument.

The camera is used by professionals, from plenty of evidence here and elsewhere. So it's a professional camera.

But it lacks some of the features that many professionals expect (complete system, service backup etc). So any attempt to market it as a professional camera will be tricky until these things are sorted.

[honcho]

Since when did a camera define who is regarded as a professional photographer?

[Albert Andersen]

There's something wrong with your 24-70 Nikon if that's what it does at 5.6, assuming it's the second image.

 

Also I disagree with your assessment of the most "professional" body. As a working photographer I have my SL configured exactly as I want. My SL works with my Canon T/S lenses, which i use every day. My SL has a live histogram, image review in the viewfinder, an accurate artificial horizon, a quieter shutter, a no loss ISO 50 and an EVF. I use my SL with off camera flash systems every day. Just not with the limitations of an infrared based TTL system. All of which make my life as a working photographer easier and more efficient. I am not saying that other might find the D810 more suitable to their needs. I just don't agree with blanket statements that don't take the needs of the *professional* into account. Cameras are machines. They become professional when they are used by professionals. Both cameras satisfy tat description.

 

Gordon

 

I use both cameras and are very pleased with both of them. They are in my opinion, designed for different applications. When I express that I find D810 more like a Pro camera, it is due to the many customization options to the task, for example. sport. I find also Nikon flash system very unique. Everything is set and controlled by the master device or the camera.

With reference to the many opinions of Leica 24/90 I made this comparison. I find the Leica 24/90 excellent compared to other zoom lenses.

There's nothing wrong with my Nikon 24/70. When I bought it, I tried 3, of which this was the best. It is also controlled by Nikon Service, who found it ok.

Nikon is perfect in 70, 50 mm and almost ok on 35 mm .. It is 24 mm which is the problem. The picture quality is only suitable for print in a newspaper.

You write that the flash is perfect with SL. I am satisfied with the SF 64 mounted on the camera. I have tried with 2 SF 64, master and slave, and can not obtain satisfactory results. If you have time, I will be grateful for your guidance.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Suteetat]

I use both and love both and find that they complement each other very well.

I suppose for general use, I am perfectly happy with SL and would not miss D810 much except

for certain circumstance. There is not yet Leica super tele prime. Even if 1.4, 2 TC comes out for Leica SL, I doubt that 90-280 would be able to replace my Nikon 500/4e FL or even 200-500/5.6 . While SL has benefit of FPS over D810, it does write very slowly once buffer is full. D810 is not much better but still  better abide smaller buffer. SL definitely is not in the same league as D5 or D500 in this respect. With XQD card, you can shoot continuously for 200 shots release shutter button and go immediately for another 200 shots at 10fps (not that I need it on my D500 but it's there). AF speed on SL is very good in good light but at low light, it is nowhere near D810's ability, let alone D5/D500. I did try bird in flight with SL and 90-280 the other day and while tracking is decent, AF acquisition is not nearly as good as D810 and tracking of bif is still not nearly as good as D810 (again, D5/D500 is also much better than D810 in this regard). 

However, for landscape, street, portrait I really have no complain. I prefer the output of 90-280 quite a bit more than my Nikon 70-200/2.8 VR ii.

As far as professional body, I suppose I am paid for a job where AF speed, accuracy, ability to focus in difficult situation is concerned, I would rely more on Nikon rather than SL. But if I am shooting portrait, I am not sure that D810 would be considered more professional except for higher resolution, I suppose.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Suteetat

[FlashGordonPhotography]

 

I use both cameras and are very pleased with both of them. They are in my opinion, designed for different applications. When I express that I find D810 more like a Pro camera, it is due to the many customization options to the task, for example. sport. I find also Nikon flash system very unique. Everything is set and controlled by the master device or the camera.

 

 

So does that make the Hasselblad H6D not a Pro camera? Based on your criteria it would be excluded. As would any other medium format or large format camera. Architecture photographers would tell you the lack of a wide tilt shift lens excludes the D810 from any professional use.

 

The often cited *sports photography* or discussions about tracking a moving gazelle at 100 miles per hour are really looking at about 0.00005% of the professional market. The tens of thousands of professionals who shoot weddings, portraits, kids, theatre, etc don't see "sport" as a purchase decision. Sports photographers are a minute percentage of the real professional market.

 

Gordon

[jrp]

I did try shooting ice hockey with the SL+90-280mm (because I happened to have it with me).

 

Startup (from sleep) times are a couple of seconds, rather than instantaneous with a DSLR.

 

The focus tracking takes too long to lock on initially to be useful.

 

I did get a few usable pics and would doubtless get a higher hit rate with practice, but a DSLR with compact 300mm f/4 or 70-200 f/2.8 would be a better tool for the job.

 

Horses for courses.  (The SL with a pair of zooms makes nature photo walks too easy.)

[steppenw0lf]

Startup/Wakeup time is typically one second. Check your SD cards if not (and turn off GPS if not necessary).

We had this discussion already long ago - and in depth.

 

There are other techniques for sports than using continuous AF - e.g. "back button AF". (On SL: MF mode with an AF lens, using joystick for focus).

Or face recognition mode - for sportmen not wearing masks.

 

(Tried also the 5Ds with 100-400 and got about the same results/hit rate, but maybe I wanted to find that, I confess ;-).

Edited August 30, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[IkarusJohn]

 

Nikon D810 is a more professional camera than Leica SL. There are so many configuration options that can be tailored to individual needs.

When it comes to flash photography, the Leica hopelessly behind.

When we look at lenses, the Leica are many steps ahead.

The images are respectively Leica SL and Vario 24/90 and Nikon D810 and 24/70 2.8

Both lenses at 24 mm, ISO 100, 1/250 sec., f:5.6

Crop is from the lower right corner.

 

 

HI Albert,

 

I must be missing something - if the first image above is from the SL and the second is from the D810, then the Nikon image is hopelessly unsharp.  Was there a focusing problem?  The SL image looks fine (for a corner crop).

 

Cheers

John

[sillbeers15]

I did try shooting ice hockey with the SL+90-280mm (because I happened to have it with me).

 

Startup (from sleep) times are a couple of seconds, rather than instantaneous with a DSLR.

 

The focus tracking takes too long to lock on initially to be useful.

 

I did get a few usable pics and would doubtless get a higher hit rate with practice, but a DSLR with compact 300mm f/4 or 70-200 f/2.8 would be a better tool for the job.

 

Horses for courses.  (The SL with a pair of zooms makes nature photo walks too easy.)

I found the AF locking to be slow to impossible to lock on when the intended subject of focus is moving & smaller than the focusing patch (single) especially with back-lighted background. Due to this slow and unable to lock focus, many users complain the AFC to be hopeless. I believe Leica SL is not the only camera having such AF limitations, else there would not have been the 'back button focus' technique developed by DSLR users earlier.

I've since switched to 'back button focus' technique on capturing moving subjects using AF.

We all know how erratic butterflies fly & changes direction, I had good AF success rate using above mentioned focusing techniques over multiple shots as seen on just one example below to share:

L1000264 by sillbeers15

[kikouyou]

What is the thickness of the glass in front of the D810 sensor? How does it compares with the thickness of the glass in front of the SL camera? This is super important for short exit pupil lenses...

[Albert Andersen]

HI Albert,

 

I must be missing something - if the first image above is from the SL and the second is from the D810, then the Nikon image is hopelessly unsharp.  Was there a focusing problem?  The SL image looks fine (for a corner crop).

 

Cheers

John

 

Hi.

No there is nothing wrong with the Nikon lens. it is how it perform at 24 mm. 70, 50 and almost the 35 mm is ok. Even in center the "24" mm Nikon picture comes close to the Leica 24/90 lens

Yes, the first picture is 24/90.

All the best

Albert

[jaapv]

I did try shooting ice hockey with the SL+90-280mm (because I happened to have it with me).

 

Startup (from sleep) times are a couple of seconds, rather than instantaneous with a DSLR.

 

Errr.. Do you allow your camera to go to sleep when actively shooting?

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[Albert Andersen]

So does that make the Hasselblad H6D not a Pro camera? Based on your criteria it would be excluded. As would any other medium format or large format camera. Architecture photographers would tell you the lack of a wide tilt shift lens excludes the D810 from any professional use.

 

The often cited *sports photography* or discussions about tracking a moving gazelle at 100 miles per hour are really looking at about 0.00005% of the professional market. The tens of thousands of professionals who shoot weddings, portraits, kids, theatre, etc don't see "sport" as a purchase decision. Sports photographers are a minute percentage of the real professional market.

 

Gordon

Dear Gordon.

 

So does that make the Hasselblad H6D not a Pro camera? Based on your criteria it would be excluded. As would any other medium format or large format camera. Architecture photographers would tell you the lack of a wide tilt shift lens excludes the D810 from any professional use.

 

The often cited *sports photography* or discussions about tracking a moving gazelle at 100 miles per hour are really looking at about 0.00005% of the professional market. The tens of thousands of professionals who shoot weddings, portraits, kids, theatre, etc don't see "sport" as a purchase decision. Sports photographers are a minute percentage of the real professional market.

 

Gordon

 

Of course, many cameras can be described as a pro camera. It obviously depends on the task to be solved.

It is my assessment based on my needs that I find more D810 Pro, and not to say that other cameras are not.

As I have written, I am very happy with my SL, specially because of the really good lenses.

When I think that the D810 is a "More Pro" camera, then it is for the many customization options. As you put it, so it depends of course on the job.

 

Gordon, you write that you are pleased using flash. Do you have experience with SF 64 used as master and slave?

Albert