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I just updated my Noctilux article with a test of the new 60mm Leica ND-filter 4-stop (16X) which is a little more blue than the B+W. 

 

Scroll down the page a bit to get to the part.

 

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-Noctilux-M-ASPH-f-095.html

 

I've written up a little bit about accuracy of ND filters in general (as to colors and density). 

 

 

 

overgaard-testing-nd-filters-2016-640w.j

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Thorsten,  Thanks for your ND filter write-up.  I found the ND filters produced by Breakthrough Photography from San Francisco are the most color neutral filters produced.  Of all the ND and CPL filters that I have owned for the last 3 decades, I found the Breakthrough ND and CPL work best on my Noctilux and other Leica M and S lenses, but I use the new Leica color filters for my M246.  r/ Mark

Edited by LeicaR10
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Thorsten,  Thanks for your ND filter write-up.  I found the ND filters produced by Breakthrough Photography from San Francisco are the most color neutral filters produced.  Of all the ND and CPL filters that I have owned for the last 3 decades, I found the Breakthrough ND and CPL work best on my Noctilux and other Leica M and S lenses, but I use the new Leica color filters for my M246.  r/ Mark

 

Thanks. I checked them out. I like their design and asked them for 60mm and 46mm filters and they answered they didn't have them and didn't intent to make them. 

 

You would think Leica would have worked with someone like them on quality filters. 

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Thorsten,  I bought Helipan adapters for the Breakthrough filters to make them work for my Noctilux and other M lenses.  I also contacted the owner of Breakthrough and told him about the Leica M lens market.  I was recently told they would do some research and consideration for the most common M lens filters;  E46, E39 and E60.  Guess we will see if they add these sizes.  I also agree with you about Leica working with a company like them for certainly their UV and CPL filters.  r/ Mark

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Thorsten,  I bought Helipan adapters for the Breakthrough filters to make them work for my Noctilux and other M lenses.  I also contacted the owner of Breakthrough and told him about the Leica M lens market.  I was recently told they would do some research and consideration for the most common M lens filters;  E46, E39 and E60.  Guess we will see if they add these sizes.  I also agree with you about Leica working with a company like them for certainly their UV and CPL filters.  r/ Mark

 

 

Leica have been telling the importance of good Leica UV-filters in front of their lenses. I'm surprised they passed these through their quality control. I would love to get better ND-filters for 60, 46, 39mm.

 

I was working on designing a Noctilux ND filter to sit on the back of the lens instead of the front. Maybe I should push a little harder on that and start making them.

Edited by Overgaard
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We know that Leica sources their new filters from Japan, and I have seen it has been suggested that the producer is Marumi:

 

http://www.marumi-filter.co.jp/en/

 

I read a few tests etc. and it seems that the quality of their top product EXUS is second to none, but they don`t offer E60 under their own name at least.

Edited by Ivar B
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I just updated my Noctilux article with a test of the new 60mm Leica ND-filter 4-stop (16X) which is a little more blue than the B+W. 

 

Scroll down the page a bit to get to the part.

 

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-Noctilux-M-ASPH-f-095.html

 

I've written up a little bit about accuracy of ND filters in general (as to colors and density). 

 

 

 

overgaard-testing-nd-filters-2016-640w.j

 

Thorsten-  Thanks for this resource.  And good timing!  I've been shopping for a ND Filter for my 50mm Summilux and was trying to decide between the B+W and Heliopan Variable ND filters.  After reading this chapter,  however, I am thinking a three stop ND might be just as good an option...maybe better!

But, I saw this under  the photo of the meter in your article and I'm not quite sure what to make of it (with regard to variable and non-variable ND):

"The one on the picture is a B+W variable fitler where the markings are in best case science fiction, in worst case just for decoration. The Heliopan variabel ND-filters are a little defined in their markings, but also ot precise. The non-variable ND-filters are mostly 0/0 - 1/3 - 1/2 stop off what their markings say."

I just want to be sure...are you suggesting the Heliopan variable ND has better markings that are (or are not) as precise?  And is the issue of precision different than the lack of precision you mention with non-variable ND?

Thanks!

(I want to mention that the resource on focusing in another thread was quite useful!  I applied some of the concepts the past few days.  Thanks again!)

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  • 1 year later...

this thread is almost 2 years old. We have probably still the same problems.

 

For my DSLR I used LEE ND-Filters as 6 stops, 10 stops (big stoper) or graduant. I was always very pleased with the results and never suffered from colour shifting. For my 46mm filter-diameter lenses (50mm lux, 35 lux, 28 cron and 21 mm SE) a while ago I bought 2 Leica Filters both 4 stops (16x or 1.2). My intention was to use them on top of each other in order to have an 8 stop ND Filter that I could use for waterfalls or other applications.

 

I just come home from lake of Constance where I extensively used that filter combination. As I see now in LR the result is a disgrace. I don‘t know if I can fix the colour shift. I doubt it.

 

What are these filters for, when the results are so unsatisfacrory? Maybe I can use one single filter (4stops). But this is never enough for longer exposure at day time. I dod not test this thow but I am vey disappointed considering the price of these items.

 

Are there valuable alternatives as screw on filters? I can not imagine to carry around big LE system or the other brands thar are mentionned above.

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this thread is almost 2 years old. We have probably still the same problems.

 

Filters both 4 stops (16x or 1.2). My intention was to use them on top of each other in order to have an 8 stop ND Filter that I could use for waterfalls or other applications.

 

I just come home from lake of Constance where I extensively used that filter combination. As I see now in LR the result is a disgrace. I don‘t know if I can fix the colour shift. I doubt it.

 

Are there valuable alternatives as screw on filters? I can not imagine to carry around big LE system or the other brands thar are mentionned above.

 

 

Firstly we had a wonderful holiday last year at Lake Constance  :)

 

Now to business, I researched long and hard on ND filters, the worst in all cases are the variables. Of the ones I found the pros. recommending Firecrest were amongst most highly praised for neutrality and were not too expensive and available in the UK: Firecrest ND is a revolutionary new type of ND filter from Formatt-Hitech Rather than dyed resin, Firecrest is a rare earth metal coating used to create hyper neutral NDs. These circular ND filters are made from Schott Superwite glass and feature stackable 5.5mm SuperSlim rings. Firecrest ND filters are hydrophobic, anti-reflective and extremely flare resistant, which increases contrast and visual acuity in challenging lighting conditions.

https://www.formatt-hitech.com/

 

 (I have no commercial connection. I purchased via Teamwork Digital in London)

 

https://www.teamworkphoto.com/online-store/filters/screw-in-filters/formatt-hitech-firecrest-nd-filter/

 

 

I only recently acquired an ND 1.2 46mm (It is stamped with a manufacturing date and batch number) and have not until now "tested" it only using it satisfactorily for a few frames without issue.

Your post piqued my curiosity so I have just gone out to run a quick test, the sun is very low here so perhaps a better time to test than at mid-day when the colour temperature is "normal" ?

 

I set the M9 for a custom WB using a card so all frames would be evenly treated. I then brought the RAW files into Capture One, pocessed two jpegs and then used the custom WB tool across the frames so the camera WB was taken out of the equation, two more jpegs.

The results are: the filter seems to be very neutral, I'm sure though there will be flaws in the "test" but for my purposes I am satisfied. I have processed the RAW files the same way in Capture One to jpeg and present the results, reduced in size for the site as they are far from inspiring. The exposure was adjusted by C1 auto and varied by 0.01 between the two frames, the filter requiring that extra which is within experimental error I would say. 

41545421652_9c80b2ea56.jpg

 

As shot on camera custom WB no filter 3078K tint 7.1 exposure 1,000th @f4

 

41586218321_102f0e5164.jpg

 

As shot on camera custom WB WITH ND filter 3078K tint 7.1 exposure 60th @f4

 

39778943020_8474218df8.jpg

 

Capture One White Balance Picker NO filter exposure 1,000th @f4 WB measured by C1 as 3261K Tint 4.4

 

27716701378_b563aaf60a.jpg

 

Capture One White Balance Picker WITH ND filter exposure 60th @f4 WB measured by C1 as 3219K Tint 3.3

 

I would judge by eye that the C1 WB is more neutral than the camera custom balance, the M9 is not renowned for WB accuracy.

 

I cannot vouch for their other densities nor for stacking but this is close as I need for neutrality.

Edited by chris_livsey
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Has anyone tried to put 2 ND filters together?  For example, instead of buying a 3 stops and a 6 stops filters I buy two 3 stops.  Does the optic add up like that or two 3 stops on top of each other will create more than 6 stops.  

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Has anyone tried to put 2 ND filters together? For example, instead of buying a 3 stops and a 6 stops filters I buy two 3 stops. Does the optic add up like that or two 3 stops on top of each other will create more than 6 stops.

 

That was just my problem. I just bought Leica filters. As they have only 4 stop ND filters I bought 2 of them so that I could stack them. Which I did. But the result is extremely bad. But normally with good filter you should of course be able to stack them as you whish. 2 3-stop filters give you the 6-stop.

 

I must add to that that in LR I could after all correct quite well by moving the 2 white balance sliders to the right to give the picture more warmth and more red. The result was quite good. Still as a matter of fact the 4 stop Leica ND filters are much too expensive for that quality.

 

As advised by Chis_Livsey I now ordered the Formatt-Hitech 10 stops. I hope to get it soon so that I could report here.

Edited by Alex U.
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Has anyone tried to put 2 ND filters together?  For example, instead of buying a 3 stops and a 6 stops filters I buy two 3 stops.  Does the optic add up like that or two 3 stops on top of each other will create more than 6 stops.  

 

ND filters are stop additive, so two three stop filters will add to give six stops, the issue with stacking any filters and ND are no exception, is you are adding extra glass/air surfaces in front of the lens running the risk of internal reflections/flare and if the mounts are not thin enough vignetting. 

I understand some of the issue with colour casts/WB temperature changes are due to IR light. ND filters may reduce the visible light by the advertised factor but not the IR, as the density of the ND increases the proportion of IR light to visible light reaching the sensor will change  and is said to produce the detrimental effects seen. Perhaps the "better" ND filters reduce the IR more than the poor ones, just speculation.

 

The Lens Rentals excellent blog has looked at clear/UV filters in some detail with interesting results:

 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/06/the-comprehensive-ranking-of-the-major-uv-filters-on-the-market/

 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/09/looking-at-clear-and-uv-filter-spectrograms/

 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/05/yet-another-post-about-my-issues-with-uv-filters/

 

 

 

As advised by Chis_Livsey I now ordered the Formatt-Hitech 10 stops. I hope to get it soon so that I could report here.

 

I look forward to your results.

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Today I got my Formatt Hitech ND3 Filter that I compared immediately to my Leica ND1.2 (I have 2 such filters so I can stack them to get ND2.4) and finally the LEE Big Stopper (ND3).  This big stopper is a glass filter and not a resin.  

 

I have to add that with Lee I have only the square big filter that I have normally to insert into the Lee filter holder (with Canon gear). As I do not have that for the M10 I simply hold the filter in front of the Leica lens and hold it there during exposure.

 

I shot 2 sets of 5 pictures:

 

1) Lens 35mm Summilux without filter

2) Same lens with 1x Leica ND1.2 filter

3) Same lens with 2x Leica ND1.2 filters resulting in ND2.4

4) Same lens with Hitech filter ND3.0

5) Same lens with Lee filter big stopper ND3.0

 

Then I tried to adjust the results 2 to 5 in LR in order to get a rendering that should then be very much comparable to the reference picture 1 (results should look like the picture without any filter)

 

The Leica filters rendered a strong blue tint that was impossible to eliminate with just adjusting the white balance. I would have to go into the LR color settings which is a rather complicated procedure. So again I came to the conclusion that the Leica filters are unacceptable for application as I have them normally. Even the result with only 1 filter is very bad. It is certainly not a problem with the stacking of 2 filters. 

 

Now to Hightech and Lee: Even without adjusting the result from both brands looked very nice. For all pictures I took the Adobe Color profile.

 

The result with the Hightech was a bit a too warm picture. The adjustments were (interesting: exactly the same for both sets): Temperature +200 and Tint +8.

The result with the Lee looked even better but a bit too cold. Here I adjusted the temperature by +550 for the first shot and +300 for the second shot. To find the right adjustment was much easier with the Lee filter as it was enough just to change position of one ruler only.

 

As a result I can say that both Lee and Hitech are extremely usable in practice as I normally use such filters. 

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I’m now a big fan of the Hitech Firecrest PL & ND filters and am currently divesting myself my B+W filters.

I will now go on with other Hitech filters as, besides ND3 I would like an ND1.8 and ND 1.2 plus the Pol-Filter. As most of my lenses (21mm, 28mm, 35mm and 50mm) have all the same filter-diameter of 46mm so I need just 1 single size of filters to carry in my luggage. For the 75mm Cron I will not buy filters.

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  • 2 months later...

Thanks. I checked them out. I like their design and asked them for 60mm and 46mm filters and they answered they didn't have them and didn't intent to make them. 

 

You would think Leica would have worked with someone like them on quality filters. 

 

These Filters exist now in 46mm (not in 60mm) as "X4 Neutral Density" with 3, 6 or 10 stops.

 

Now its the question weather HiTech Firecrest or Breaktghrough have the better filters for 3 or 6 stops. The 10 stops I got as firecrest. Its an excellent filter.

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