Why is the upcoming Summilux-SL lens so large?

[satijntje]

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This is nearly the size of the 24-90 and it will be heavy as well.......

Wondering why Leica cannot make a summilux (ok it is1.7) for the SL with a size of  the Q lens?

 

 

J

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The same reason that Zeiss, Sony, Sigma and others can't make one. Interchangeable lenses are bigger to accomodate their interchangeable design. The Q lens, needs no bayonet system and probably reaches very close to the sensor. Secondly Leica is apparently making a no compromise 50 with this lens. Think Otus with AF rather than Q.

 

Gordon

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[pico]

It is about physics. Complain to the universe.

.

[DTM]

It is about physics. Complain to the universe.

.

 

while enjoying a Bitburger!

[Guest VVJ]

Physics indeed, Leica wants this to be a reference lens, i.e.. be better than the Otus.  Anything else would be a disappointment...

Edited August 4, 2016 by JorisV

[Ivar B]

Physics indeed, Leica wants this to be a reference lens, i.e.. be better than the Otus.  Anything else would be a disappointment...

And perhaps cost twice as much as the Otus?

 

I bought a mint Otus with Canon mount for a very good price and eagerly wait for the Novoflex adapter.

[Jeff S]

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Different beasts....AF and weather sealing in the Leica, not the Otus.

 

Jeff

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

Different beasts....AF and weather sealing in the Leica, not the Otus.

 

Jeff

And a native lens designed for best performance with the body

[zlatkob]

If it's about physics, then the 50mm Summilux-M and 50mm APO-Summicron-M must be very bad lenses, because they are so small. 

[ramarren]

Different mount, different camera ... different requirements. Thus different designs and dimensions. 

[Guest VVJ]

And perhaps cost twice as much as the Otus?

 

My guess would be $4-5K as pre-order price and then once the reputation of the lens is well established jack up the prices a few times with 10-15% till $7-8K...

Edited August 4, 2016 by JorisV

[kikouyou]

Price increase is being done to manage demand and indeed to improve profits. Leica has a good history of raising prices. It is a great marketing technique to manage demand elasticity, particularly when one cannot produce enough lenses. With the new Westlar plant, it seems that Leica does not have too much capacity issues any more. So we may just see the regular price increases only that maintain or slightly improve the profitability of the business. Let's not forget this business is a niche which is somewhat fragile as we are all very demanding customers for the price we pay. This is the price that allows Leica to build exotic fantastic lenses like the 50mm APO summicron or the Noctilux which are a bit out of the mainstream summicron/summilux lenses. This is also the price that allows a lens like the vario elmarit and the SL system to be created. Something far more complex than the Nikon/Canon stuff out there. This is the price to push the envelope too much like with the T and fail. A company that does not fail sometimes does not try enough :-)

Leica has almost died a few times and was saved by savvy and passionated people which understood that you cannot cut too many corners if you want a brand like this to survive.

 

As per the size of the SL prime, I am puzzled. We all know that the full frame size of the M lenses is due to the fact the distance between the mount and the film plane (sensor) is very small and indeed because the M lenses are only mechanical. This plus a bit of genius in creating these amazing optical formulas with a minimum of glass (M only as for the SL there is a serious inflation in the glass department that gives us perfect zooms with a Leica soul at the cost of a possibly inferior bokeh). For the SL the mount is even closer to the sensor than for the M (as we can attach M lenses with an adaptor). And yes I know that we have AF, IS and electronic diaphragm, but still, it is puzzling. I would like to see a native summicron prime for the SL without AF/IS. It should not be bigger than a M lens. 

[rriley]

Price increase is being done to manage demand and indeed to improve profits. Leica has a good history of raising prices. It is a great marketing technique to manage demand elasticity, particularly when one cannot produce enough lenses. With the new Westlar plant, it seems that Leica does not have too much capacity issues any more. So we may just see the regular price increases only that maintain or slightly improve the profitability of the business. Let's not forget this business is a niche which is somewhat fragile as we are all very demanding customers for the price we pay. This is the price that allows Leica to build exotic fantastic lenses like the 50mm APO summicron or the Noctilux which are a bit out of the mainstream summicron/summilux lenses. This is also the price that allows a lens like the vario elmarit and the SL system to be created. Something far more complex than the Nikon/Canon stuff out there. This is the price to push the envelope too much like with the T and fail. A company that does not fail sometimes does not try enough :-)

Leica has almost died a few times and was saved by savvy and passionated people which understood that you cannot cut too many corners if you want a brand like this to survive.

 

 

 

"Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."  

 

                                                                        aldo gucci

[Lynx]

(---)I would like to see a native summicron prime for the SL without AF/IS. It should not be bigger than a M lens.

The mount is larger on the SL, so such a lens would be more like an Summicron R, w.o. adapter of course. Still quite small.

 

But I wonder If Leica will go that route, for those in need of small and exceptional manual lenses, there is M and R...The 50 Apo is still a "statement" lens, and the Lux Asph is no slouch either. A Summicron R 50 delivers wonderful classic rendering and handles very nice on the SL. I much more prefer Leica to continue with the AF development for the SL. But I agree that the SL Lux look enormous...

 

...my first reaction to the Vario-Elmar 24-90 was OMG! what have I done!?! But I surrendered after a couple of hours shooting. Maybe in one year we all will be Summiluxed by the performance of this yet to materialize super lens .

 

//Johan

[satijntje]

It is about physics. Complain to the universe.

.

 

Leica M lenses are small and of outstanding quality.

I cannot understand why adding IS and AF explodes the size and weight to what we can expect now for this 50 Summilux for the SL.

Other brands that have AF and (partially) IS in their 1.4 50mm lenses can also manage two put this in a compact and light weight housing.

Fail to understand why Leica cannot do this! 

 

IMO, this has nothing to do with physics!!!

 

John

[Peter H]

Leica M lenses are small and of outstanding quality.

I cannot understand why adding IS and AF explodes the size and weight to what we can expect now for this 50 Summilux for the SL.

Other brands that have AF and (partially) IS in their 1.4 50mm lenses can also manage two put this in a compact and light weight housing.

Fail to understand why Leica cannot do this! 

 

IMO, this has nothing to do with physics!!!

 

John

 

 

 

I'm sure you're right, but they've probably decided to relax the size constraint to get maximum quality with having to push the price up to stratospheric levels.

 

We all know that all lens designs are compromises and if you want the best of everything including build quality, weatherproofing, AF, IS, IQ and small size, the one variable that has to go is price constraint. You cannot have everything.

[Guest]

when i take a look at my old konica hexar, i wonder how they made it

 

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lambda

 

[pgk]

Leica M lenses are small and of outstanding quality.

I cannot understand why adding IS and AF explodes the size and weight to what we can expect now for this 50 Summilux for the SL.

Other brands that have AF and (partially) IS in their 1.4 50mm lenses can also manage two put this in a compact and light weight housing.

Fail to understand why Leica cannot do this! 

 

IMO, this has nothing to do with physics!!!

 

If you are correct then Leica are just being plain stupid in building a superb but huge lens when they could obviously build one (and do so, albeit a superb MF lens with no camera connections whatsoever) which is much smaller. On the other hand there are a number of excellent reasons why a much larger lens may be able to deliver superb image quality whist offering multiple camera connections, IS and AF ...... . Stupidity versus technical requirements - you choose.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Leica M lenses are small and of outstanding quality.

I cannot understand why adding IS and AF explodes the size and weight to what we can expect now for this 50 Summilux for the SL.

Other brands that have AF and (partially) IS in their 1.4 50mm lenses can also manage two put this in a compact and light weight housing.

Fail to understand why Leica cannot do this! 

 

IMO, this has nothing to do with physics!!!

 

John

 

They do but the only three that come close optically are the Sigma, the Sony FE and the Otus. They're all large lenses as well. It's the last 10% of performance that adds 50% of the size and weight.

 

Just like the Bugatti Veyron needs 40% of it's powered for the last 5% of top speed. It's the cutting edge that takes the burden.

 

Hopefully Leica will make a Submicron eventually. But something like the Submicron M is an anomaly, not the norm.

 

Gordon

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jrp]

The zoom, with OIS is good enough for me, combined with faster M lenses when needed. If I want to stop action and AF at a low ISO, I doubt that I would be doing it at 50mm.

 

The new Nikon 105mm f1.4 looks intriguing. Designed by the guy who designed the 58mm. I got the 105mm f2 about 20 years ago and still love it today, but usually take the 135mm f2, despite its questionable performance, as a companion to the 85mm f1.4 for portraits. Neither is a focus speed demon, but they do the job. So I think that I might just remain intrigued, in both 50mm and 105mm cases.