Second camera to a sick M240 - any suggestions?

[Steve Ricoh]

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I have a very sick M240 that spends a large percentage of its time in Germany getting fixed. So I have M lenses but no camera, as its in he post to Germany yet again.

 

What do I choose as a backup? Obviously not another M240 or one of its derivatives. I''ve considered a film M but it's the D&P that puts me off... Plus the running costs and the need for a good scanner.

 

Any suggestions?

[Manoleica]

I'm sure not every M240 built has issues/problems.. A used M or M-P camera with a warranty from a Leica dealer would suit me.. How about the M9? Going the other way:- The T or SL are considerations..

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[Doc Henry]

It's been a while since I switched to film after 5 years of digital M
I do not regret , more disease or "triggering inflation syndrome", take time to compose

because I know I have not many poses in my roll
 

Suggestion : M6 , M7 or MP . M7 the faster as said Raymond Depardon,  MP is also good IMO

M6 cheaper vs M7

If you have time look at our thread

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-962?do=findComment&comment=3088273

Best

Henry

Edited July 31, 2016 by Doc Henry

[edwardkaraa]

M262 is the cheapest and most enjoyable alternative.

[Steve Ricoh]

Doc, actually if I had my time again I could easil buy a very good or even a new MP plus a scanner for what I paid for the M240, and have money left over for enough D&P to see me out. Also, having a background in film myself in the days when computers where mainframes mainly used at university, or massive companies who could afford them, I do think there's a mental attitude with digital cf film. As you say, having 24 of 36 opportunities somewhat changes the attitude to everyone had better count, unlike digital where it's more like a Gatling gun.

[Stealth3kpl]

Is it the expense of another M type that makes you say "Obviously not.."?

I haven't had any problems with my M-P but I've only taken around 1200 images with it. I use it like a film camera. If you're not troubled by the expense of another I'd say get another .

I mainly use film Ms, especially on trips, and sending the film off to be developed and scanned brings some excitement as you await your images from the trip. You don't tire of your images by the end of your trip and you don't need to sit at your computer for hrs sorting through the frames from your trip. It's a much more pleasurable experience for me, and the results are often much better than I could achieve by post processing digital. Sometimes they can be disappointing though.

If you'd like a digital alternative you could try the Ricoh GXR with M mount sensor. The results are very good.

Pete

[mike_j]

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Nice reliable Sony A7ll and Voigtlander close focus adapter?

[tomlianza]

hello steve,

 

When I sent my M9 in for a cleaning along with a number of lenses to get coded, i bought a Fuji Xpro-1 and three or four lenses.  The entire system cost less than the M9 body.  While the Leica was in NJ, I used my other leica lenses on the XPRO-1 with the adapter.  I was very impressed with the handling of the camera and the utility of the EVF.  After the M9 came back, I still went to the XPro-1 for most shooting.  For some reason, I bought an M240, thinking that the good low light performance (relative to the M9) would meld me to the Leica family once again.  When the fuji X pro 2 came out, I traded the M9, body for body.  The EVF and manual focus on the X-Pro2 with leica lenses is very good. My M240 is rarely used, but my leica lenses find their way onto the Fuji all the time (although the little fuji 18-55 zoom works quite well).  Does the XPro2 out perform the M240?  From an image quality standpoint, I would have to say not quite.  I can enlarge images to 24X36" easily on my HP printer so I can pixel peep and there is a difference, but it is very very slight.  On the other hand, the Fuji is very easy to focus, very quick to set up and with the custom setting menu, I believe it is a much easier camera to use on a daily basis.  It is also probably 1/2 half the weight of the 240.  The fuji adapter for leica is very well made.  You do not need to buy any fuji lenses, although they are very competent lenses.  Just use you Leica lenses and you will be very surprised at the results. 

 

Regards,

Tom L.

Edited July 31, 2016 by tomlianza

[lct]

My M240 has never got significant problems in 3 years use but it is now at the end of its commercial life so i would not buy another one now. Second cameras i've used are my good old M8.2, a Ricoh GXR, a Fuji X-E2 and a Sony A7s mod. Best IQ with M lenses to me are Sony mod and Leica. The Ricoh is not far but its EVF is painful to use. The Fuji's EVF is much better but the camera has a thick sensor stack so corners tend to smear with wider M lenses than 35mm. My favorite has been the A7s mod to the point that it is now my main camera but when i need a rangefinder, the M240 is unrivaled imho. Besides other current digital Ms i guess but i have no experience with them.

[Steve Ricoh]

Hi Tom L, I've been reading about the XPRO and yesterday I had a play with the XPRO-1 when I went into my dealer to hand over the dud M240 for onward shipping. The guy I spoke to said its not out anywhere in the world until the 10th August, but I'm sure I've seen people posting shots from the XPRO-2. Yes, this is very much on my radar!!

[Steve Ricoh]

Is it the expense of another M type that makes you say "Obviously not.."?

I haven't had any problems with my M-P but I've only taken around 1200 images with it. I use it like a film camera. If you're not troubled by the expense of another I'd say get another .

I mainly use film Ms, especially on trips, and sending the film off to be developed and scanned brings some excitement as you await your images from the trip. You don't tire of your images by the end of your trip and you don't need to sit at your computer for hrs sorting through the frames from your trip. It's a much more pleasurable experience for me, and the results are often much better than I could achieve by post processing digital. Sometimes they can be disappointing though.

If you'd like a digital alternative you could try the Ricoh GXR with M mount sensor. The results are very good.

Pete

No, it's when you've been bitten once, why put your hand back inside the dog's mouth. Meaning, I've lost trust in the M240 I have (well actually Leica have it, or will shortly and for the next 8 weeks or so, and then send it back to me with yet another shutter and say, here try this... you know where to contact us if it goes tits up again).

[Doc Henry]

Steve , as said Pete about the GXR Ricoh , look at this link  :

http://leicaphilia.com/the-renaissance-of-film-grain-in-the-digital-age/

I understand and you must choose what you like

Best

Henry

Edited July 31, 2016 by Doc Henry

[DigitalHeMan]

I've been very happy with the results from my Sony A7, and the newer Mk2 models are supposed to be either even better. Whatever third party body you go for, just don't skimp on the M lens adapter. I started with a cheaper one, and the tolerances were so tight I couldn't even mount lenses. I changed it for a Novoflex and although it cost twice as much, has worked perfectly for me.

[Steve Ricoh]

Steve , as said Pete about the GXR Ricoh , look at this link  :

http://leicaphilia.com/the-renaissance-of-film-grain-in-the-digital-age/

I understand and you must choose what you like

Best

Henry

Eloquently written article, thanks for sharing.

 

Another viewpoint, or rather a question: what's the chance of a film MP going wrong compared to a digital M240 or the similar M-P240? No need to answer, it's a fairly obvious, even to my wife who knows next to nothing about cameras.

[ramarren]

I've had no problems with my M-P typ 240. If it came up with some issues, I'd have no problem buying a second one as backup. 

 

However, If you want a digital camera but want the film camera shooting experience, buy an M-D typ 262. I decided to go for one of these and find that it is without a doubt my favorite M—more favorite than any of my film Ms and preferred over the M-P. Simple, no options, just like a film M. No film, no distracting LCD or menus, yet digital capture and raw workflow, just like the digital M. 

 

To me, this is what the essence of the modern M camera should be. 

[Ernstk]

If you can live with the crop, an M8 would be my choice.

 

Stunningly good B&W image quality...

 

Ernst

[Doc Henry]

Eloquently written article, thanks for sharing.

 

Another viewpoint, or rather a question: what's the chance of a film MP going wrong compared to a digital M240 or the similar M-P240? No need to answer, it's a fairly obvious, even to my wife who knows next to nothing about cameras.

 

Steve , you are welcome

 

For your question 

I posted in our film thread this:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?p=3086882

 

"creative satisfaction" and "artistic" sense of the term , no smoothing pixels by software camera but silver grain, color more faithful !

http://www.europeanceo.com/culture/film-photography-makes-a-stunning-comeback/

Best

Henry

Link from Carlos thread Thanks Carlos.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Doc Henry

[Herr Barnack]

If cost is not a barrier and you enjoy black and white, why not a new M Monochrom?  If that is not an option, I would recommend what I shoot with as a back-up camera, an M4-P.  Yes, you will have to develop film which is time consuming - but film processing can actually be an enjoyable pursuit.  So around $1000ish USD for a clean M4-P and $250 for a good used light meter and you are set up for a song in terms of Leica M prices.  Something worth considering IMHO.

 

As for your chronically ill M240...  I have had an M240 and an M-P that were both 100% reliable as have thousands of other M users.  There is absolutely no justifiable reason that a $6600 USD camera should have to go in for repair repeatedly, provided you are not dropping it in a lake repeatedly (and I do not get the indication that you are). 

 

I say it is time to hold Leica's feet to the fire on this one.  Tell them "This camera has had to be worked on _____ times, it is STILL not right and I am done with it.  Either repair it so that it is 100% reliable or replace it with a new in box copy." You paid your $6600 in good faith;  Leica owes you a functioning, reliable M240.  After all, there is a warranty that Leica is bound by law to answer to.  If the camera has intrinsic electronic problems that cannot be reliably repaired, IMHO Leica needs to own up to that and do the right thing - even if that means (God forbid   ) them eating the cost of the defective camera.

 

Your Leica dealer may be able to help with this; if he is sympathetic to your situation, he may be able to go through back channels to assist in getting this resolved to your satisfaction. 

Edited July 31, 2016 by Carlos Danger

[dpitt]

+1 for the M8 as a 'cheap' backup. You get crop factor, different rendering and B&W as interesting differences and it has the full Leica RF experience with your lenses. OTH, if you are going to use it for color, a UV/IR filter is a must IMO. Depends on your lens filter size(s)if a filter will be easy to find.

Edited July 31, 2016 by dpitt

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[Sandokan]

I sold my M for the SL and do not regret it. Maybe my eyesight, but I just could not focus it properly. I do use my M8 occasionally though and do not have the same focusing problems with that.

 

It was mentioned above but are the M8 or M9 options for you?

 

Today if I had to buy a new camera system - it would be the Fuji X, with the native lenses. They are a camera company (IMHO Sony are an electronics company who make cameras and their menu system and usability point to this).