Leica M3 variations - 3

[Pecole]

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And the last found photos of variations in my Fontenelle Collection's M3s :

- Different designs of film loading illustration on the inside body bottom.

- Four different back door internal designs.

- And, to finish with, a more significant - or at least visible evolution variation, the adding of a viewfinder frame selection lever on the left side of the front body (as from serial nº785801).

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[spydrxx]

Thanks for sharing...photo comparisons are much more useful to me than solely descriptive text.

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[Pecole]

Thanks for sharing...photo comparisons are much more useful to me than solely descriptive text.

 

Happy that my (old) archives have been useful !

[Leicaiste]

Dear Pierre,

 

Another variation is the lack of the fifth screw on the top of the bayonet mount on the first M3's.

 

The screw which is normally covered with black wax with an embossed L in script on later variations of the M3's.

 

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Edited February 24, 2017 by Leicaiste

[Rick in CO]

Here's my M3; later variation with the 5th screw and a single centered round disc on the back door! M3-775360

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[pico]

There was an auction recently for two consecutive numbered Leica M3 cameras; each had a different loading illustration on the bottom. I think it was unlikely to be the absolute change over model, but mixed parts in the bin.

Edited February 24, 2017 by pico

[willeica]

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Here's my M3; later variation with the 5th screw and a single centered round disc on the back door! M3-775360

L1050556sm.jpg

L1050560sm.jpg

 

I have M3 DS SN 778657 which has the fifth screw. The wax contains something like 'H' or 'M' on it. I don't place much value on 'L' seals, however. The ASA dial at the back goes from 6 to 200 ASA and the shutter speed dial goes 1-1/2-1/5-1/10-1/25-1/50-1/100-1/250-1/500-1/1000th. The interior is like yours. I believe that the pressure plate is made from glass. It does not have a lever for frame-lines on the front; introduced at SN 785801 according to Pecole's post above.

 

William 

[alan mcfall]

Here is my list for the wax seal codes.  If anyone has a more recent or expanded or corrected list, please share.  there must be more, Italy, Argentina???

 

L ( script L) Raised, original leica Germany

L( script L ) Recessed repaired in Germany

Y (script Y)  Repaired in Rockleigh, NY.

T   repaired in Toronto

C original Canada

51 repaired in Vancover

29 repaired by Marty Forscher

66 repaired in Austraila

B repaired in Lutton

92 possibly Norm Goldberg

 

11 variations of the M3 are noted in Viewfinder V3, No. 4,  a pretty old reference, so maybe some new ones have been found.

 

Regards

[Pecole]

Fascinating! If I were still a collector...But the interest - and archives - are still there, for my pleasure.

[chris_livsey]

Here's my M3; later variation with the 5th screw and a single centered round disc on the back door! M3-775360

 

L1050560sm.jpg

 

And the film loading varies from those generously posted, no length specified but central screw in place.

[jc_braconi]

 

Here some seals and origins :

 

56: Serviced by Paepke Fototechnik 

92: Serviced by DAG as well all know it.

24: ?

69: ?

A: Serviced by Alois Kosnar from Stockholm

C: Manufactured by Leitz Midland, Canada, rare sight

H: Serviced by Havel Camera, Texas, USA 

J: Serviced by Mr Gerry Smith from Toronto

K: Serviced by Kanto Camera Service, Japan (Kanto Camera Service)

L: Raised letter, manufactured by Leitz up to M4-2 and did not include CL

L: Recessed letter, serviced by Leitz up to 1982 (?)

N: Serviced by Leitz New York

O: Unsure origin, mentioned on photo.net to be a service person from Adeleide, Australia.

S: Hand-engraved letter, serviced by Sherry Krauter

 

and those (translated in French) taken from "25 Jahre Leica Historica" :

 

A: Venzlaff, Athène/Grèce

B: Leitz, Londres/Grande Bretagne

C: Leitz, Milan/Italie

D: Tiranty, Paris/France

E: Brandt, Stockholm/Suède

F: Lutz Ferrando, Buenos Aires/Argentine

G: Cattaneo, Gˆnes/Italie

H: Schmitt, Hongkong

I: Taeuber, Le Cap/Afrique Sud

K: Kleiner, Rio de Janeiro/Br‚sil

M: Pablo Ferrando, Montevideo/Uruguay

N: Lackland, Aukland/Nlle. Z‚lande

O: Odin, Nijmwegen/Pays-Bas

P: Perrot, Biel/Suisse

Q: Parer, Sydney/Australie

R: Sanitas, Bogota/Colombie

S: Schmidt, Tokyo/Japon

T: Carveht, Toronto/Canada

U: Commercial Ultramar, Mexico/Mexique

V: Forestier, Valparaiso/Chili

[jc_braconi]

The really last version do not wear the guard around the lens lock

 

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Here is my list for the wax seal codes.  If anyone has a more recent or expanded or corrected list, please share.  there must be more, Italy, Argentina???

 

L ( script L) Raised, original leica Germany

L( script L ) Recessed repaired in Germany

Y (script Y)  Repaired in Rockleigh, NY.

T   repaired in Toronto

C original Canada

51 repaired in Vancover

29 repaired by Marty Forscher

66 repaired in Austraila

B repaired in Lutton

92 possibly Norm Goldberg

 

11 variations of the M3 are noted in Viewfinder V3, No. 4,  a pretty old reference, so maybe some new ones have been found.

 

Regards

 

Hello Alan,

 

Thank you for your list.

 

I think that "Y" is for Leitz, New York City. At least part of the time they were on Park Avenue. South of 42nd street. I was there.

 

You might check further. I think they had other locations in New York City also.

 

Rockleigh is in the North East Corner of New Jersey.

 

Near where the New York State Border & the Hudson River meet.

 

This is East of Allendale (Also in New Jersey) where their offices are now.

 

In between Rockleigh & Allendale is Montvale (Also in New Jersey) where their Offices were after Rockleigh & before Allendale.

 

An M3 that I had done in Montvale (I took it there & picked it up myself.) AROUND 1980 has a gray seal with NO mark of any kind.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited February 25, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[alan mcfall]

           I knew someone would catch the New York-New Jersey error.  Here is my study of office locations for Leitz.  Taken from literature or other material.  The weakest transition is the one from 59th to 18th street, maybe someone can help pin it down.    Leitz also had offices in Chicago and San Francisco, but I don't think they did repair work, just stocking and sales.

Of course, the Emil Keller book covers a lot of the history of this location, including ownership changes,  it is titled "E. Leitz, Inc. New York".Offices for E. Leitz.doc

 

 

            Offices for E. Leitz, New York

                                                   Dates

                                                      Earliest            Latest

 

30 E. 23^rd Street                             1894               1905

411 W. 59^th Street                          1905              ~1920 (may be 1913)

30 E. 18^th Street                              1913 noted

60 E. 10^th Street                              5/1923            2/1937

730 5^th Avenue                               3/1937            9/1944

Wartime shutdown                         9/1944            11/1945

304 Hudson Street                          11/1945

468 4^th Avenue                                1/1953

Rockleigh, N.J.                               Early 1970 

 

 

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

           I knew someone would catch the New York-New Jersey error.  Here is my study of office locations for Leitz.  Taken from literature or other material.  The weakest transition is the one from 59th to 18th street, maybe someone can help pin it down.    Leitz also had offices in Chicago and San Francisco, but I don't think they did repair work, just stocking and sales.

Of course, the Emil Keller book covers a lot of the history of this location, including ownership changes,  it is titled "E. Leitz, Inc. New York".Offices for E. Leitz.doc

 

 

            Offices for E. Leitz, New York

                                                   Dates

                                                      Earliest            Latest

 

30 E. 23^rd Street                             1894               1905

411 W. 59^th Street                          1905              ~1920 (may be 1913)

30 E. 18^th Street                              1913 noted

60 E. 10^th Street                              5/1923            2/1937

730 5^th Avenue                               3/1937            9/1944

Wartime shutdown                         9/1944            11/1945

304 Hudson Street                          11/1945

468 4^th Avenue                                1/1953

Rockleigh, N.J.                               Early 1970 

 

Hello Alan,

 

"468 4th Avenue" is the same as saying: "468 Park Avenue". I am not sure when the name change occurred. This address is on the South side of Grand Central Station which is ON 4th/Park Avenue. Between 42nd Street & 44th Street.

 

Similarly: What today is called "Avenue of the Americas" in New York City was formerly called: "6th Avenue"

 

There was also another address that I was at which was at the corner of 59th Street and Central Park West. A tall building right on the corner which Leitz had space in when they were also at Rockleigh in New Jersey.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited February 27, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[HaymoBachmaier]

Anyone an Info for Pablo Ferrando, Montevideo? My Leica M4-P from 1981 has a M Waxseal, but cant find any Infos about Pablo Ferrand in Montevideo..

[250swb]

15 hours ago, HaymoBachmaier said:

Anyone an Info for Pablo Ferrando, Montevideo? My Leica M4-P from 1981 has a M Waxseal, but cant find any Infos about Pablo Ferrand in Montevideo..

The embossed seal stopped being used with the M4-2 and replaced with a black screw.

Edited December 26, 2022 by 250swb

[HaymoBachmaier]

But mine M4-P has there no Screw but a Waxseal (under the wax should be a screw yes)