Plustek 8100i - Am I expecting too much?

[gsgary]

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My problem is the aera on the sky taken from this photo.

How can I optimise the render of this area?

Thanks

did you bump up the white point or high curve ?

[Myvalko]

Hi. I have the same issue with details when scanning with the Epson V550 (not the best one, I agree). Setting was too I: 6400. I reduced to 3200 dpi and got plenty of details. I am also using a dedicated application like. It will add some more details.

I also play with sharpening/details and grain reduction in Lightroom

 

They are other parameters I am taking into account: The film. I am using rather Tmax or FP4. As much as possible 100 iso. I have less grain

 

3rd always control temperature when home processed. This can have an effect on dark tones.

 

And don't forget film is grain as digital is noise

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[tobey bilek]

Does your model of Plustec have the ability to focus?  My son`s Plustec can not be focused unless it is automatic or non existent like a flatbed.

[250swb]

This isn't really a Plustek related issue, but I like the picture, it conjures many intriguing thoughts, the fishermen hoping for a catch, the man with the phone (?) what is he fishing for? 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'improve the rendering of the sky', whether you mean the grain, or the tonality. But using your low res Dropbox picture increasing the 'Structure' with Silver Efex and some burning separates the tones in the sky and darkens it. The same can be done in the darkroom by using a harder grade of paper and burning by hand.

 

(ignore the artefacts and banding, that is just from working with a low res image)

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Edited August 28, 2016 by 250swb

[chris_livsey]

Does your model of Plustec have the ability to focus?  My son`s Plustec can not be focused unless it is automatic or non existent like a flatbed.

 

The Epson flatbed series have film holders that allow adjustment to the focus plane "sweet spot" and after market products allow finer control, as do the most recent holders from Epson, it is not "nonexistent". I suppose you mean the "lens" cannot be focussed but you achieve the same result by moving the object.

Posted for clarity I am not being argumentative here, my 8100 has no adjustment of focus which is frustrating but comparison scans show it is near enough without resorting to shims in some way, which is remarkable given the price.

Edited August 28, 2016 by chris_livsey

[250swb]

I think the Plustek doesn't needs to focus simply because it isn't using the old style lamps that were found in Nikon or Minolta scanners. These warm up and generate a lot of heat, so mechanical dimensions change, hence you need to be able to focus the negative. Plustek uses a LED style lamp so it stays much cooler.

 

 

Steve

[EoinC]

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...the man with the phone (?) what is he fishing for?...

It's a smartphone, enabled for e-fishing.

[chris_livsey]

I think the Plustek doesn't needs to focus simply because it isn't using the old style lamps that were found in Nikon or Minolta scanners. These warm up and generate a lot of heat, so mechanical dimensions change, hence you need to be able to focus the negative. Plustek uses a LED style lamp so it stays much cooler.

 

 

Steve

 

Interestingly, I hope, a company in the UK offering a fine tune focus service, for DSLRs with that facility built, in not a manual focus shimming, (instead of struggle it yourself) comment that if you shoot in extreme temperatures that vary summer/winter or are going to such an area a calibration should be done for each temperature range. I know they are drumming up business but may have a fair point.

[too old to care]

I think the Plustek doesn't needs to focus simply because it isn't using the old style lamps that were found in Nikon or Minolta scanners. These warm up and generate a lot of heat, so mechanical dimensions change, hence you need to be able to focus the negative. Plustek uses a LED style lamp so it stays much cooler.

 

 

Steve

 

 

I took my 7600 apart when it died.  First, there is no separate lens, the sensor is a long strip that moves via jackscrew and spring arrangement, the light source is a series of LEDs above the negative, and the sensor is mounted under the negative.  The lens, if there is one, seems to be built into the sensor and appears to be several of them.  The sensor fits into the slot that is vacant, just below where the negative carrier would be.  

 

The negative is in a carrier between the light source and sensor.  As the sensor/light source moves it shines light through the negative.  The negative shadows the sensor.  Since the sensor is a small, narrow strip, it sees only a thin line, probably just a pixel wide.  I assume that the sensor records one pixel at a time the data received from the shadow that is cast upon it.  As the motor turns, the sensor records another line.  This is done until the whole negative is scanned.  Using Silver Fast Six you could scan the negative several times, which I assume again that the software averaged the image.  With Silver Fast I have not been able to find that function.  Either way, the image seems about the same quality to me.  

 

The following series of photos shows the Plustek taken apart.  First is the whole unit.  You can see the jack screw.  Not shown is the negative carrier that would go between light source and sensor.  To the right is the motor that drives the jackscrew, and attached to the sensor/light source carrier, is the spring that keeps it tight while the motor turns.  And below the unit is the photo sensor.  I removed it to see what it looks like.  

 

The whole unit reminds me of my Canon flatbed scanner.  That is, it scans one line at a time, and compiles the scans to produce an image file.  

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Edited August 31, 2016 by too old to care

[too old to care]

This is the light source, which moves on the jack screw.  You can tell that because there are only power wires going to it.  If the sensor were attached, it would fit into the slot below where the negative carrier fits.  

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Edited August 31, 2016 by too old to care

[too old to care]

The light source by itself.  

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[too old to care]

And the sensor.  If you look closely, it appears to have the lenses are built into the sensor.  Moving the negative carrier may provide some focus, but I cannot verify that.  I have tried flipping the negative carrier and not seen any differences.  

 

 

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[too old to care]

A close up of the sensor.  Note what appears to be lenses?  I am not sure they are, they may be connectors too?  I no longer have the unit, or I would play more with it.  I am not about to open up my new 8100, until it also dies someday.  Hope this helps understand how the unit works.  

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Edited August 31, 2016 by too old to care

[250swb]

A close up of the sensor.  Note what appears to be lenses?  I am not sure they are, they may be connectors too?  I no longer have the unit, or I would play more with it.  I am not about to open up my new 8100, until it also dies someday.  Hope this helps understand how the unit works.  

 

Good work! My other suspicion about the Plustek design, although I can't prove anything concrete, is that the lenses give slightly more DOF than a conventional scanner lens.

 

With my Nikon 9000 and Minolta Multi Pro they would scan a perfect layer of grain, but it never looked like film grain, more like digital noise. Grain on a negative is layered and interlocking and although not perfect I see this effect much more, firstly with my 7400 and now my Plustek 120. So they appear to scan the depth of the grain, and not just one level of grain. I also think this is what people confuse if they say a Nikon 9000 is sharper but ignoring the lost information, and also forgetting that Plustek scans do sharpen up to look very natural.  

 

Re what you say about multi pass scanning, Vuescan can also do this with Plustek scanners and makes it very easy to find the feature.

 

 

Steve

[too old to care]

Good work! My other suspicion about the Plustek design, although I can't prove anything concrete, is that the lenses give slightly more DOF than a conventional scanner lens.

 

With my Nikon 9000 and Minolta Multi Pro they would scan a perfect layer of grain, but it never looked like film grain, more like digital noise. Grain on a negative is layered and interlocking and although not perfect I see this effect much more, firstly with my 7400 and now my Plustek 120. So they appear to scan the depth of the grain, and not just one level of grain. I also think this is what people confuse if they say a Nikon 9000 is sharper but ignoring the lost information, and also forgetting that Plustek scans do sharpen up to look very natural.  

 

Re what you say about multi pass scanning, Vuescan can also do this with Plustek scanners and makes it very easy to find the feature.

 

 

Steve

 

 

Thanks Steve.  Attached is a photo using Silver Fast 6 with multi scan.  If I blow it really big, I can start to see pixels.  But, only if I go really big, much bigger than you would ever print the image, and each grain in the photo is made up of several pixels.  

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[too old to care]

And, this is an extreme crop to just show the grain.  I can see no pixels, unless I blow it up even more, but I can see irregular patterns in the grain, as though the scanner speed varied a bit as it passed across the negative.  It is most noticeable on the left side of the image, but again, this is an extreme blowup of just a tiny portion of his face.  

 

Also, I was impressed to see the size of the scanner itself.  It appeared to me almost big enough to use on medium format film.  I guess it is an off the shelf scanner, thus they only use a  small portion of it, maybe the middle section.  

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Edited September 1, 2016 by too old to care

[colonel]

IMHO the biggest difference in scanner is whether its AF or not (--- if you can feed the negatives flat !)

 

For non AF scanners the Plustek is not bad at all. Its significantly better then flatbed scanners I have looked at and often on par with some film&scan develop shops.

 

The next step up is the only "affordable" AF scanner still around (happy to be corrected here if anyone has info) is the Reflecta RPS 10M. I am psyching myself up to get one. The reviews look good. Its roughly twice the price of the Plustek 8200i SE in the UK, which makes sense, and requires silverfast to be bought as an extra to extract the maximum detail (apparently it makes a big difference) which can be obtained for around €70

 

rgds