a quick film developing question

[mahakalaka]

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Hi Gang!

 

So I've become interested in color. I've basically not shot color film at all, only traditional B&W. I don't want to develop it myself, but will scan it myself.

 

My question: Is there any difference in the quality of development of say Portra, between a high-end professional lab, and a cheaper alternative?   I don't know anything about C-41 developing.

 

Many thanks in advance,

Max

[ramarren]

The differences in the quality of commercial processing with a C-41 film come down to how carefully the lab maintains the processing machine (maintaining cleanliness of the machine, how tightly temperature control is maintained, and how well the chemistry is replenished). This can be all over the map: a good discount photofinishing lab with people who care about the quality of their output can produce better results than a sloppy professional lab who are running on a shoestring budget. 

 

You can process C-41 at home as well and the quality/consistency of your results is a direct result of your willingness to follow directions and do the process methodically, cleanly, and with chemistry that hasn't been over-used or allowed to age beyond spec. Your home results can be identical to the best commercial lab if you do it right, or as bad as the worst. I keep a few sets of the Tetenal C-41Press Kit for this purpose, which produces excellent results for small batches of C-41 film, but mostly I go to a lab I know with clean, well maintained machines, and let them process my C-41 film because it's faster and easier for me. 

 

The best way to pick a good lab is to talk to other photographers shooting film and gather their experiences with labs doing the process. Opinions will be all over the map, but by and large they'll tend to be aligned around a couple of local and mail-order companies. 

 

If you're located in the San Francisco Bay Area, Keeble & Shuchat Photography in Palo Alto does most film processing in-house, and maintains their machines well. I've had many hundreds of rolls of C-41 processed there over the years and have not had a bad experience yet. 

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[Michael Hiles]

In my experience, using a reliable lab is most satisfactory. In my case, the downside is two 30km drives (drop off and pick up). The upside is that it is a little less expensive than a kit. And the quality is always perfect.

 

Do-it-youself kits are fine (even excellent), but they can turn out expensive if you don't use them to their full capacity. 

[mahakalaka]

Thanks a lot for the replies!

 

This sounds good and logical. I guess I'm a bit spoiled, because I actually have three labs within a five minute walk from my office here in Stockholm, Sweden. They charge a bit differently from each other, that's why I asked. I'll probably end up trying them all now.

 

Many thanks,

Max 

[sarav]

I've tried just for fun a Tetenal C41 kit and now I've returned shooting colour. Marvelous scratch-free negatives. I suggest you to give a try.

 

Sara

[250swb]

Hi Gang!

 

So I've become interested in color. I've basically not shot color film at all, only traditional B&W. I don't want to develop it myself, but will scan it myself.

 

My question: Is there any difference in the quality of development of say Portra, between a high-end professional lab, and a cheaper alternative?   I don't know anything about C-41 developing.

 

Many thanks in advance,

Max

 

I'm not sure from your post if you have processed B&W yourself but if you have then using a C41 Tetenal kit you won't see any difference between your efforts and a top lab (mistakes aside).

 

A C41 kit is as simple as processing B&W, a bit scary at first (but remember your first B&W film), and very satisfying to do. It can be used at lower temperatures to increase development time (and so reduce panic), and the lower temperature also means temperature control is much easier. You only need two or three extra bits of simple equipment and containers besides your normal developing tank.

 

 

Steve

[honcho]

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.....My question: Is there any difference in the quality of development of say Portra, between a high-end professional lab, and a cheaper alternative?

 

Yes, and it's more of a consideration now than before digital entered mainstream photography. A specialist lab with a regular throughput of C41 films will be far more reliable and consistent than a high street mini lab, if you can even find one with the capability to handle film processing, where processing equipment will have been standing idle.

 

The best advice is as above, do it yourself if you can.

[erl]

The world has changed. Pro labs, with some exceptions, are not what they used to be. You now have the facility to 'outprocess' them yourself using , eg. Tetenanal C41, or equivalent. Benefits of doing it yourself, which is not difficult, are:

Better quality

Faster result

No speeding tickets racing to the lab

No accidents racing to the lab

Satisfaction of achieving the result yourself (big ticket item)

etc.

 

Downsides:

It costs a bit more than it used to, scale of economies etc. (but still a good investment, IMO).

 

I used to do my own as a a Pro.

Now, retired, I really enjoy the 'contact sport' of doing it myself and being responsible for the out come.

Plus, there are no 'lab scratches' etc. What a relief!

 

Just do it. You will never regret it

[Doc Henry]

Hi Max, since now 1 year , I develop myself in C41 and I agree with all above

Look at these posts of poppies taken yesterday morning and developed in the afternoon

in the same day . Good work no scratches at all and I am happy. Manual work is relaxing

and film is wonderful in color ... and b&w because of grain not "smoothing pixels" 

C41 development is very easy and cheaper if you do yourself . It just needs  a constant

temperature during development (5mn30-30°C).

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-874

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-875

Good luck

Best

Henry

Edited June 25, 2016 by Doc Henry

[Bobitybob]

I have developed B&W for some time and used my local supermarket for colour (£2.5 process only and always good results).  However, I have recently started to do my own colour using the Fuji Hunt C41 kit.  Works out at around £1 a role, cheaper and very satisfying.  Developer temperature is the most important to get right, the other solutions are not so critical.  

 

Don’t forget if you do move to colour you can still use C41 B&W films such as Ilford XP2 and do this at the same time as your colour films as they all use the same process.

 

To help I’ve just made my own water bath which has replaced a washing up bowl and kettle.

 

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Cost around £20 (excluding the developing tank, which I already had).  I connect the input to my hot tap, and having set my combination boiler to 38 degrees C run this through the bath until the Developer reaches the correct temperature.  I then re-run as and when required to maintain the temperatures.

 

Worth a try just for the satisfaction alone.

 

Hope that’s helpful

[Doc Henry]

Bob ,congratulations fine equipment

Bob you'll  need a lot of water at 38°C. Try to work at 30°C

Send me a PM if you want more precision.

Best

Henry

[Doc Henry]

My unique equipment

-one hotplate German Kaiser brand

(or a resistance for fish aquarium 30°C)
-and a basin , with Paterson tank

 

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Leica M8-90 MacroElmar

 

Best

Henry

 

 

 

[Bobitybob]

Bob ,congratulations fine equipment

Bob you'll  need a lot of water at 38°C. Try to work at 30°C

Send me a PM if you want more precision.

Best

Henry

 

Henry

 

Thanks for the offer, I did consider using a lower temperature as it would have been more convenient, however having conducted a little research there appears to be some potential downsides to this.  In particular this discussion and article on APUG http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/article-on-home-processing-c-41-color-negative-film.135716/#post-1775876 which seems to suggest that it causes problems with colour rendition so decided to stick with the recommended temperature for now.  Hence that's why I made the water bath.  It only takes my boiler about 30 seconds to get to 38 degrees so I run it for about 5 minutes or so and then let it rest for a while checking the developer and running it again until it's the right temperature.  Once the developer temp is right and put in the tank I place this in the bath and run the boiler again for the recommend processing time (3.5 minutes) to maintain this temperature.  After that I don't bother for the other solutions as they remain warm enough without further heat.

 

When I'm a little more experienced with colour I may experiment a little more

Edited June 25, 2016 by Bobitybob

[mahakalaka]

Sorry I missed all the new replies, but thank you all very much!

 

I used to develop my own B&W film, but got rid of all the equipment a while ago while we were moving. I have always been under the impression that color film was more difficult to develop, don't know why, but I just have. But this is interesting, I may very well start to develop myself again.

 

As I mentioned before, I am a bit spoiled by having a number of labs very close to my work. I have only tried the more expensive one so far, but the results were great and the man working there (one man show) was very nice, so I guess I really should just continue to support him instead of looking to save a little, if I don't want to develop myself.

 

Thanks again everyone!

Max

[fotohuis]

Different home possibilities:

 

 

 

However years ago people were happy to get rid of their big Jobo equipment so in that era I bought for a bottle of wine a complete Jobo CPA-2. After re-newing the elevator and in time the re-circulation pump it is a fine dark room equipment. I am also developing big posters with it (40x50cm) and RA-4 color prints.

 

 

In time also an Ilford 40cm wide IR dryer. However in the actual market good darkroom equipment is rare.

[Doc Henry]

Henry

 

Thanks for the offer, I did consider using a lower temperature as it would have been more convenient, however having conducted a little research there appears to be some potential downsides to this.  In particular this discussion and article on APUG http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/article-on-home-processing-c-41-color-negative-film.135716/#post-1775876 which seems to suggest that it causes problems with colour rendition so decided to stick with the recommended temperature for now.  Hence that's why I made the water bath.  It only takes my boiler about 30 seconds to get to 38 degrees so I run it for about 5 minutes or so and then let it rest for a while checking the developer and running it again until it's the right temperature.  Once the developer temp is right and put in the tank I place this in the bath and run the boiler again for the recommend processing time (3.5 minutes) to maintain this temperature.  After that I don't bother for the other solutions as they remain warm enough without further heat.

 

When I'm a little more experienced with colour I may experiment a little more

 

Sorry for the late reply

Bob I have tried in 38°C many times and also in 30°C and I have compared pictures. It's the same !

The advantage of working at 30°C is that products are not too heated and thus keep longer.

Look at this link in french and translated in english by Google :

https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pirate-photo.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D655&edit-text=

the original link : http://www.pirate-photo.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=655

Rg

Henry

Edited July 1, 2016 by Doc Henry

[Doc Henry]

Different home possibilities:

 

 

 

However years ago people were happy to get rid of their big Jobo equipment so in that era I bought for a bottle of wine a complete Jobo CPA-2. After re-newing the elevator and in time the re-circulation pump it is a fine dark room equipment. I am also developing big posters with it (40x50cm) and RA-4 color prints.

 

 

In time also an Ilford 40cm wide IR dryer. However in the actual market good darkroom equipment is rare.

 

Nice equipment. A perfect professional lab

Good development and print

Best

Henry

[Doc Henry]

Hi Max, since now 1 year , I develop myself in C41 and I agree with all above

Look at these posts of poppies taken yesterday morning and developed in the afternoon

in the same day . Good work no scratches at all and I am happy. Manual work is relaxing

and film is wonderful in color ... and b&w because of grain not "smoothing pixels" 

C41 development is very easy and cheaper if you do yourself . It just needs  a constant

temperature during development (5mn30-30°C).

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-874

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-875

Good luck

Best

Henry

 

another example in the same roll

 

Tetenal dev 30°C - 5mn30

continuous stirring at 30 ° C in the water bath

(picture posted above)

 

Picture uncorrected

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Kodak Portra 160

Leica M7

Apo Summicron 90 Asph

 

Rg

Henry

[chrism]

If I had three labs within a five minute walk I would use them too. Not just to save me time and effort, but to help keep them in business. As it is, the only C-41 processing is a once a week pick up at the local drugstore and a two week turnaround. E-6 means mailing the film to a shop 100 miles away and they send it from Nova Scotia to Manitoba for processing. God knows the time and cost involved. So for me, it's C-41 and E-6 presskits as dry chemicals can be sent by mail (fancy liquid kits cannot and are very hard to find these days even if they could be shipped). Fortunately, both processes are easy and reliable as long as you pay proper (not obsessive) attention to temperatures and times. A made-up C-41 kit is good for around three months, and the E-6 for about six weeks. Any scratched negatives are your fault and no one else's, which is somehow more tolerable!

 

Chris

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[mikemgb]

In my area there are two camera shops, several High Street shops and one Professional Lab that all offer photo processing. The camera shops and high street shops all outsource processing, most of them to the same place, because of the volume this place does the quality is usually good, chemicals are changed as needed and the staff care about what they do, but everything is processed in an automatic machine across rollers.

 

The professional lab batch processes films, they wait until they have enough to justify filling their tanks and developing film. When they do everything is hand developed in dip tanks, you will never find dust or scratches on your negatives, but you will wait longer and pay more.

 

In my experience a high end lab will always give excellent results, anywhere else will usually give good results but you run the risk of the odd damaged film.