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I have an M Monochrom, which is working very well.  I haven't printed my own images before, and I'm looking to learn. I'll be using an inexpensive Canon MG7520 inkjet to get started, but will shortly move to an Epson P800.  I'm printing from Lightroom on a Mac, with the display calibrated using an X-rite Colormunki Display.

 

Before I begin this process, I had a few questions:

 

1. Can someone recommend a good starting paper for B&W photos?  I was considering Ilford, but the number of choices seems overwhelming.  I'd like to start with something I can experiment with, and then move up to better paper as I fine tune the process.

 

2. I understand Ilford provides ICC profiles.  Can someone please explain what these are and why they are preferable to use?

 

3. Are there any good online recommendations to cut down on the number of mistakes I'll make along the way?

 

Thanks in advance!

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Hello,

 

If you purchase Ilford papers you will have to download the paper profiles, which isn't a big deal but wanted to provide a heads up.

 

I LOVE the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper and the profiles are already loaded. I also recommend trying the Epson sampler packs which will include the exhibition fiber and some other great papers, hot press bright, velvet, etc. 

 

For B&W though, you cannot go wrong with the Epson Exhibition.

 

Good luck!

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You might take a look at Red River paper for comparison.  Nice paper from the manufacturer and they make several paper types, and think very reasonable.  They sell sample packs too.  There are also sample packs available of many paper producers.  That's a good way to get started.  I personally have no favorite paper.  But for creating cards, Red River was excellent.

 

There are lots of online tutorials on line, check youtube.  Some may be confusing based on which version of Lightroom you are running.  They moved around some of the printing module functions around.  But it will make sense after working with it awhile.

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I suggest that you subscribe to LuLa (Luminous Landscape).....a mere $12 per year....and spend time watching their entire Camera to Print and Screen video tutorial (12+ hours).  [Julieanne Kost's free video tutorials are also quite good for LR editing, if you don't already have your editing workflow down.]

 

If you learn better by reading, I suggest buying Jeff Schewe's two books....The Digital Negative, and The Digital Print.  They will save you a lot of time and effort, and give you a good grounding.

 

You might consider getting the new printer sooner than later, since a disciplined and standardized workflow is part of the foundation for good printing.  To start, pick one paper and learn it well (kind of like initially sticking with one camera and one lens).  No reason not to pick a good one to start.....you've already bought a Monochrom.  Mistakes are inevitable, but once you learn with a good paper, you won't have to start over just when you're feeling good.

 

I use various papers, but a favorite for b/w is Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique.  It's very similar to Ilford's Gold Fibre Silk (now under the Prestige label), which I use for color.

 

Profiles are an important element in a disciplined (and color managed) print workflow, if you want predictable and reliable results (along with soft proofing).   Eventually you may want to create or purchase custom profiles (specific to your printer), but the company's profiles are generally a good start.

 

I suggest you browse the Digital Post Processing section of the forum to get more info regarding these issues....and a lot more.

 

Anyone can learn the techniques to print....just like anyone can learn to use a camera.  The key, however, is having a good eye and good judgment.  That's what often separates a good print from a great one.  Toward this end, the more real prints you look at (in galleries, museums, shows, etc), the better off you'll be.  You need to know what you're after.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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If you are wanting to print B&W then I would seriously council just waiting until you get your Epson P800. You really need the 'light light black', 'light black', and 'black' inks of the P800 to make any investment in a good paper worth the effort. Otherwise you will just end up printing everything again and you won't learn anything at all because the results from a cheap printer will be all over the place even after colour profiling.

 

For paper however Canson Infinity Baryta is a standard high quality paper for many photographers and you can't go far wrong with it.

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You don't say where you live, which may determine your paper options. I'm not sure if Red River is available in the UK, for example.

 

ICC profiles are bits of software that tell your printer how much ink of each colour to put on your chosen paper with your specific printer to achieve "perfect" colours. You place them in a folder on your computer where Lightroom/Photoshop or Epson's own printing software can find it. Generic profiles are what they say; custom profiles are intended for your particular setup, and are created by printing out a standard test sheet, which you either send off to get scanned, or, if you have the right kit, scan yourself. Custom profiles are optional for standard printers, inks and papers, but 100% necessary if you go down the route of using 3rd party inks (as I do with my Epson R3000).

I got sample packs from a number of suppliers, but have ended up with Canson. I don't do high gloss, but for lustre, matt and textured art papers I use Platine Fibre Rag, Rag Photographique and BFK Rives (which has recently been renamed to ?Printmakers Rag). I have some cheap Permajet Oyster (lustre) for occasional unimportant prints (e.g. greetings cards), and Permajet postcards.

Note that if you are going to frame your prints behind glass or acrylic, you will lose most of the visual benefits of matt or textured papers, though matt papers may avoid an extra set of reflections.

 

Key issues are

- Optical Brighteners or not. OBAs make a brighter, more contrasty print, but fade over time, leaving a yellowy print.

- resin coated, cellulose or rag paper base. RC papers are cheap but have a plasticy look to the finished print. Rag and cellulose fibre papers are more characterful, but rag papers tend to be acid-free and long lasting. 

So for archival quality, you need OBA-free rag papers, but these tend to be the more expensive! And may produce a less in your face punchy print than a glossy resin base paper with OBAs.

Edited by LocalHero1953
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If you are wanting to print B&W then I would seriously council just waiting until you get your Epson P800. You really need the 'light light black', 'light black', and 'black' inks of the P800 to make any investment in a good paper worth the effort. Otherwise you will just end up printing everything again and you won't learn anything at all because the results from a cheap printer will be all over the place even after colour profiling.

 

For paper however Canson Infinity Baryta is a standard high quality paper for many photographers and you can't go far wrong with it.

I'll second Steve's recommendation of the Canson Baryta paper. And using the Epson Advanced B&W print driver is a good starting point, before or instead of using the Canson ICC profiles.

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To expand a bit on ICC profiles - they do for your printer what your Colormunki calibration/profile did for your screen.

 

All digital imaging devices have errors in how they reproduce light and an original scene: cameras, monitors, printers, scanners. All therefore need profiling.

 

Profiles are basically the result of lab testing to figure out what the errors are, and then apply corrections so that, in theory, your camera's/scanner's output, what you see on the screen, and what you see in a print are all the same - a specific ICC (International Color Consortium) gray or color value. That includes colors and brightness, so you need them for B&W printing as well as color. Otherwise your "native" printer output probably won't match what you see on the screen - grays too dark, or black too washed out.

 

When you print via a profile, Lightroom sends out the data for the picture, and the printing profile immediately intercepts it, says "Uh-oh, on this printer and paper, this gray of 20 needs to be printed as 28," changes the data, and sends the corrected brightness/color values on to the printer.

 

You can get a more sophisticated equivalent of the Colormunki, that can measure reflected light off your prints, compare it to the original data, and make your own printing profiles. But Ilford and other papermakers do that lab work for you, and provide those ready-made profiles.

 

In addition to profiling for devices, you also need to set up your printer for the type of paper (glossy, luster or matte). This has to do with how the ink interacts with the paper surface. Especially black. Prints with the glossy setting, but on matte paper, will look very grayed out, and prints on glossy paper with matte settings will be way overinked and smear, and have very weird colors. The P800, and some other printers, actually has two deep blacks, for "photo" (glossy/luster) and "matte" papers.

 

One critical factor in printing is workspace illumination, and balancing that with your screen brightness.

 

When you see your picture on the screen, that has a very bright internal light source - glowing pixels. When you look at a print, it has no light source itself, just the reflected available room or window light. Therefore many people complain that their prints are "too dark" compared to the image on the computer. Adjusting screen brightness - in addition to the Colormunki profile - and adjusting room brightness (blinds up, lights on), so that a sheet of your paper leaned up against your screen looks exactly as bright and white as your screen's "white," is critical to judging how your print will match your screen image.

 

My Mac Cinema Display is set to about 1/2 brightness, and my window blinds are up and the room as bright as possible, when I'm adjusting pictures and judging prints. And then my prints never look "too dark."

 

However, if you KNOW the print wil be viewed/displayed in a dark area, you may want it even brighter than "correct under daylight." It's no big deal to run around your home checking a print under varying light levels, to get a feel for how it will look in dim, medium, "open room light" or even direct sunlight.

 

Same goes for color balance (not that it matters much for B&W). If you try to adjust/edit an image on the screen in a room with normal yellowish indoor lighting, your eyes will be biased by the yellow room light, and your daylight-profiled screen and picture will look too blue. So you will add yellow to the picture. Once you print that picture and view it under daylight, it will look too yellow. I never print or adjust pictures critically for color except in daytime, although you can get daylight-balanced lighting for your workspace. Not just lights marketed as "daylight" - but serious, expensive 5500-6000°K-specced tubes/bulbs/LEDs.

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Thanks, this is excellent information.  I've accelerated the printer purchase and joined LuLa.  I'm in the process of watching the videos now.  Once the printer arrives, I'll have some work ahead of me.  I can't wait.  Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

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Thanks, this is excellent information.  I've accelerated the printer purchase and joined LuLa.  I'm in the process of watching the videos now.  Once the printer arrives, I'll have some work ahead of me.  I can't wait.  Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

 

Good call on the P800.  If you haven't already noticed, LuLa has tons of other videos, and articles, on a broad range of subjects.....including on the P800.  Just use their search box to bring them up.

 

Here's a couple of other useful resources in getting your printer up and running....

 

 

 

 

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson-sc_p800_review.html

 

Also, be aware that Epson has a $250 rebate on the P800 until June 30.  (And an additional $50 if you're already an Epson owner.)

 

Happy printing.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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The LuLa videos are very good and if you are using LR life is very easy

 

I prefer using the B&W ABW mode self adjusted using Northerlight images then saved. I use a colour monkey and adjusted older iMac screen and get all of my papers adjusted by printing an A4 test print sending to the paper supplier and they email a perfect colour profile for free

 

The paper reading is the most difficult and expensive

 

I am a big fan of Matt and fine art papers

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PS I manual feed from the back fine art papers

 

They go in the front on the P800.  I found this the easiest feed on the 3800 as well, but the P800 feed was modified to make this even better.

 

As an aside, I use ImagePrint 10 RIP in lieu of the Epson driver.....not only makes print settings a breeze (and reliable), but it includes great profiles for virtually all papers (and each under different lighting conditions).  Expensive, but less costly than custom profiling gear.

 

Jeff

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Jeff, tks

 

In the UK most suppliers offer a fee profile, you simply print their e-mailsed test print and post it to them and they send back your icc profile.

 

Oh a Rotatrim is well worth the money and you might as well buy A2+ size paper and cut it down when needed

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They go in the front on the P800.  I found this the easiest feed on the 3800 as well, but the P800 feed was modified to make this even better.

 

As an aside, I use ImagePrint 10 RIP in lieu of the Epson driver.....not only makes print settings a breeze (and reliable), but it includes great profiles for virtually all papers (and each under different lighting conditions).  Expensive, but less costly than custom profiling gear.

 

Jeff

 

I agree 100% with Jeff on all his points. Image Print is expensive but is a very good piece of software and very straightforward to use. With Image Print the image you see on your screen is the "soft proof" image so "What you see ,is what you get" coming out of the printer.

BrianP

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Gidday from the land under.

 

I have just recently attended a piezeograghy workshop in Santra Fe, New Mexico.

Yes I travelled from Australia to Santa Fe specifically for this workshop.

I was not sure at first what to expect but the final results from everybody in the workshop was amazing.

Piezeograghy is B & W printing at its finest.

Having the use of 5 different ink sets: Warm Neutral, Selenium, Special Edition, Carbon and Neutral.

Prints from the Monochrome CMOS no editing blew my fellow workshop participants away including myself.

This is not an advertisement but a recommendation first hand.

You can check it out on inkjetmall.com or makinartsafely.com and see for yourself.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Cheers Dazza

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As far as I know, Cone hasn't yet provided Piezo capability for the OP's P800.  It would require a separate Epson printer....plus a learning curve.  It's a great system, for those willing to deal with the hassles of third party systems.  IP, on the other hand, simplifies rather than complicates use of the Epson, while allowing for flexible use of many different papers, toning effects, etc.  I agree, though, that Piezo is capable of producing wonderful b/w.

 

Jeff

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I've made it through about half of the LuLa videos from the Camera to Print and Screen by Michael Reichmann & Jeff Schewe, and have learned a lot.  I'm enjoying their approach to these topics.  I hope to finish the videos in the next few weeks.  Fortunately, with a technical background, I'm not having trouble absorbing the information, but as with anything, practice will make perfect.

 

I've also made it part of the way through Jeff Schewe's books (The Digital Negative and The Digital Print).  I'm really enjoying both the videos and the books.  They were a worthwhile investment.  I now know quite a bit about ICC Profiles and how they are created.  I'm testing some Epson and Hahnemühle paper.

 

My rotary cutter will be arriving this week, and I hope to learn how to do some matting and framing next.  Piezeography is another new concept to me, and I'd like to try it eventually.  ImagePrint also looks promising.  Thanks for the great discussion, I'm really enjoying this!

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