lct Posted June 18, 2016 Share #21 Posted June 18, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would not hold my breath given the recent update of the lens but i would not be surprised to see a new 35/2 apo coexisting with the current lens the same way as Sumicrons 50. Just a guess though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 18, 2016 Posted June 18, 2016 Hi lct, Take a look here The new 28 Summicron vs the old 28 Summicron. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rscheffler Posted June 18, 2016 Share #22 Posted June 18, 2016 I would be interested to know which 35/2 in the world is or has been better than the current Summicron. I have only 3 of them (M 35/2 asph, M 35/2 v4 & R 35/2), i like them all but to me the 35/2 asph is still the winner. My vote for a possible contender would go to the new Voigtlander 35/1.7. At least for technical image performance. I've happily used one for nearly a year and recently compared it against the two 28 Crons and more recently compared it against the Zeiss ZM 35/1.4 Distagon that everyone raves about.... At infinity it's already sharp wide open. By f/2.8 it's really good across the frame. It peaks between f/4-5.6 for absolute sharpness on the M240 and outperforms the copy of the ZM I tested for across-frame sharpness consistency. At nearer distances it has slight forward field curvature towards the edges of the image, but in practical use is pretty much flat field in character. Nitpicks are possible slight focus shift and IMO the ergonomics are a definite step down from Leica. In particular I really miss not having a focusing tab. It's also a bit on the longish side. I also don't consider it an f/1.7 lens, rather an f/2 lens. Shooting wide open only gains you slight additional exposure in the very center of the frame. Rendering character will be subjective. At near subject distances with good background blur, it's quite smooth without double edges, etc. At medium distances with less subject/background separation, background rendering is busier and less appealing. But I think few medium wide lenses do well here (maybe the 35 Sonnar on the RX1 is the best). In the EU the Voigtlander is a screaming deal at 540 Euro (black version, pre-VAT). As for my 28mm journey... after my bad luck (IMO) with the new Cron, I've picked up a nice, used 28 Lux, as posted in the new 28 Cron thread, in case anyone is interested... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 18, 2016 Share #23 Posted June 18, 2016 Congrats on your 28/1.4. Seems like you're not alone to have problems with the new 28/2. My dealer has rejected two copies of it already. The next one will be good hopefully. The CV 35/1.7 would interest me if i had no 35mm lens but it is as tall as my 35/1.4 asph v2 at least (let alone my v1) and its knurled focus ring is not my cup of tea. If CV made a 35/2 asph or apo the same size or smaller than the Summicron asph i would be definitely interested. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted June 18, 2016 Share #24 Posted June 18, 2016 Funny really halving my lens collection and keeping all my 35's I've never hankered after another 28 which I use a lot, was my first lens on the M8 and I like my older 28 summicron very much. Perhaps because all the other 28 options until very recently were slower. I might pop in to Leica Mayfair and have a look next time I'm in London ! Always nice to have something to covet from Leica I'd been hankering after another 35, the pre ASPH sunmilux, but perhaps a slightly wider lens should be considered as nearly half the lenses I know own are 35mm... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 21, 2016 Share #25 Posted June 21, 2016 Good news !! The old 28 cron still works. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261858-golden-light/?p=3065585 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeeper Posted July 2, 2016 Share #26 Posted July 2, 2016 Okay here's my view, ignoring image size : It is technically better in respect of the MTF's. Take a look at F2 the ONLY M lens Leica made with better MTF's at F2 under 50mm is the 50 APO. I don't like the tendency for the pink colouring of the 35mm ASPH and the bokeh is not great either. Other than the hood and build issues reported for the old Summicron which I have never experienced the 35 ASPH in my view is MUCH more in need of an upgrade. I also never really liked the images I got from the ASPH, didn't dislike but didnt regret selling it twice. Oh and While I'm on my soap box the hood is small but 'ugly' at best, I know we don't buy things just to look good but design is about combining performance and aesthetics and for me the hood only ticked one of those boxes I'll be shocked if the 35mm Summicron is not on Karbe's hit list I'm in the same boat regarding the 35 Cron ASPH. I've been looking for an alternative to my Ultron 35 f1.7 LTM because of that lens' .9M close focus. I set up two different tests for performance and tested two different Cron ASPHs against it. In every test, the Ultron not only out-resolved the ASPH samples across the frame, but it suffered from no focus shift. The Crons both focus shifted significantly. That being said, the Ultron had nasty chromatic aberrations and the ASPH had none. CA can be fixed in Lightroom but backfocus and resolution cannot. Unfortunately, .9M close focus cannot be fixed in Lightroom either. I REALLY wanted to fall in love with the Cron ASPH and add it to the quiver, but I can't. I'm giving the Biogon f2 a try. I tried one out and loved the handling and performance. Again, it out-resolved the Cron ASPH yet had .7M close focus and no CA. Regardless of how well the Biogon works out, I won't be buying a Cron ASPH. I might splurge for the Lux FLE when funding such a lens makes sense, but that's not the case right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 2, 2016 Share #27 Posted July 2, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Again the 35/2 asph's focus shift... How did you test it if i may ask? Can we see your pics? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted July 2, 2016 Share #28 Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Hi there - this was posted and answered in the 35 summicron thread . . so I thought I'd repost it here Supposed Shortcomings of the old 28 Summicron: Supposed ameliorated aspects of the new 28 Summicron I hope that helps Hi Jono, I tried to compare the MTFs, but I can only get the old data sheets. I tried on the Leica camera pages but find only the pdfs for the older versions from 2013 (the pdfs are from 2013, not the lenses).. Can you add a link to the new data sheets from 2016 ? Thanks. Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I tried for a while without success. As Leica likes to hide the data of older lenses I have to collect the data sheets. Unless an "influential" gentleman could convince Leica to offer an archive with older data. By the way, the wiki in this site is also incomplete - no trace of the new versions. Thanks. Stephan Edited July 2, 2016 by steppenw0lf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted July 2, 2016 Share #29 Posted July 2, 2016 I'm in the same boat regarding the 35 Cron ASPH. I've been looking for an alternative to my Ultron 35 f1.7 LTM because of that lens' .9M close focus. I set up two different tests for performance and tested two different Cron ASPHs against it. In every test, the Ultron not only out-resolved the ASPH samples across the frame, but it suffered from no focus shift. The Crons both focus shifted significantly. That being said, the Ultron had nasty chromatic aberrations and the ASPH had none. CA can be fixed in Lightroom but backfocus and resolution cannot. Unfortunately, .9M close focus cannot be fixed in Lightroom either. I REALLY wanted to fall in love with the Cron ASPH and add it to the quiver, but I can't. I'm giving the Biogon f2 a try. I tried one out and loved the handling and performance. Again, it out-resolved the Cron ASPH yet had .7M close focus and no CA. Regardless of how well the Biogon works out, I won't be buying a Cron ASPH. I might splurge for the Lux FLE when funding such a lens makes sense, but that's not the case right now. I am amazed what people try to get THE OPTIMAL lens. I simply use my old Summicron-M 35 (IV), a classic. On paper it is inferior to the latest versions. But I know exactly how it behaves and I know that it is close to perfect at aperture 8. And also with bigger apertures I find it excellent. Before the year 2000 it was regarded as one of the very best. Typically at aperture 5.6 or 8 even the most modern lenses like the Apo 50 are "only" equal to their predecesssors, because they had already attained a high level. So if IQ really matters - and how often is that the case - I know exactly what to do, and with the SL - that offers excellent high ISO rendering - I never had a problem that the lens was too slow. So before trying all exotic kinds of lenses, simply try this used lens. And additionally it is one of the smallest, which is nice when using a rangefinder. The new sensors supporting high ISOs at near-perfect quality offer a new way of "reviving" lenses that the summilux-spoilt user easily dismisses as "not good enough". (Just compare in your mind film at ISO 100 or 200 with an SL or M246 at ISO 1600 or 3200 - 3 or 4 additional aperture steps for improved IQ when needed). My lenses are mostly from before 2000. Then I made a "pause" (Nikon) and came only back with the M246 and SL. First I thought I probably need to replace the "old" lenses. But after the first comparisons it was soon clear - and it was a relief - that the old darlings are fit for the digital age. For me it is mainly the sensors that make a difference, because they offer much more room for stopping down to optimal apertures. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 2, 2016 Share #30 Posted July 2, 2016 Good news !! The old 28 cron still works. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261858-golden-light/?p=3065585 What a relief! And here was me thinking all of my photographs taken with the old 28 Summicron were going off in front of my eyes. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 2, 2016 Share #31 Posted July 2, 2016 [...] I tried to compare the MTFs, but I can only get the old data sheets. I tried on the Leica camera pages but find only the pdfs for the older versions from 2013 (the pdfs are from 2013, not the lenses).. Can you add a link to the new data sheets from 2016 ? [...] See post #10 above 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeeper Posted July 3, 2016 Share #32 Posted July 3, 2016 Again the 35/2 asph's focus shift... How did you test it if i may ask? Can we see your pics? I could post them if you wish. They are quite boring. Camera on tripod, focus from magnified live view wide open, then a sequence of shots while stopping down and compensating with shutter speed. The paper I focused on went quite out of focus and the box several inches behind became the focal point as I stopped down on the Cron. Now: Does this affect real photos? I have many where the eyes are noticeably soft while the hair and ear behind them is tack sharp. Was it a focusing error or focus shift? All I know is that almost all missed-focus shots have the focus behind where it was intended. Almost never in front. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2016 Share #33 Posted July 3, 2016 Just curious as there are too many rumors about this famous focus shift that i've never seen personally. May i ask if you've used an RF or an EVF to do your tests? Were your lenses calibrated for digital? Just curious again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 7, 2016 Share #34 Posted July 7, 2016 Just taken a couple of test shots with the 28/2 v2 on my Sony A7s mod. See: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249421-sony-fans-show-your-sharp-corners-with-m-r-wides/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3074667 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249421-sony-fans-show-your-sharp-corners-with-m-r-wides/page-3#entry3074675 In a nutshell v2 looks basically the same lens as v1 with slightly sharper corners at f/2. I don't focus at infinity though so perhaps more obvious differences can be seen this way, i don't know. No significant focus shift, contrary to what i read here and there, so no difference with v1 from this standpoint. No obvious difference re field curvature either but it is just a first impression. Beware than my dealer has rejected two copies of v2 before keeping mine so i suspect that sample variations will be observed on this lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261150-the-new-28-summicron-vs-the-old-28-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=3074954'>More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share #35 Posted July 7, 2016 In a nutshell v2 looks basically the same lens as v1 with slightly sharper corners at f/2. I don't focus at infinity though so perhaps more obvious differences can be seen this way, i don't know. You really need to look at it at infinity. It's where the rear element is closest to the sensor, and the differences should be blindingly obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 7, 2016 Share #36 Posted July 7, 2016 Well i don't do astrophotography so i don't focus farther than 20 meters with 28mm lenses generally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share #37 Posted July 7, 2016 Well i don't do astrophotography so i don't focus farther than 20 meters with 28mm lenses generally. Good for landscape though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 7, 2016 Share #38 Posted July 7, 2016 Not in my experience i must say. DoF is too wide to see any significant difference in the backgrounds, with my gear at least. i prefer keeping details in the foregrounds but YMMV of course . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share #39 Posted July 7, 2016 Not in my experience i must say. DoF is too wide to see any significant difference in the backgrounds, with my gear at least. i prefer keeping details in the foregrounds but YMMV of course . I've no idea what you're saying here? are you saying that the lens isn't any good for landscape? or that it is because there's no significant difference in the backgrounds? All I'm saying is that the point where the difference between the old and the new lens is most obvious is at infinity, the same is true for use on Sony cameras. If you don't care about corners at infinity, then of course that's completely fine . . . . but it doesn't mean that the issues don't exist! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 7, 2016 Share #40 Posted July 7, 2016 My Eglish is worst and worst seemingly, sorry for that... I just said or meant to say that i do not focus further than 20 meters with 28mm lenses generally because i don't see any significant difference in the backgrounds due to DoF vs focussing at infinity and i prefer retaining details in the foregrounds. But again YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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