Distractions associated with Barnack gear

[Wayne]

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When Leica announced the new M-D (Digital M without LCD) I declared it would be the first new Leica I would purchase. I am not there yet, but should be within a year. Now, as I peruse various collectible Barnacks, it occurs to me: a very nice IA Compur can be mine for exactly the same diminution of family treasure. If nothing else, it has caused me to become ever more curious about the Compur.

 

In a world where the Compur did not posses significantly increased value related to scarce suppy, would it be considered a significantly superior camera to own due to the nature of what it is capable of rendering, as opposed to IA with 50mm Elmar? Is the Compur a significantly more engaging/satisfying camera in practical use?  Is it a practical camera at all? What are the greatest pitfalls of owning this camera,? is it as repairable as a IA with Elmar?  Is it a special purpose camera?

 

Thanks for your help and patience.

 

 

[giordano]

As far as I know the only advantage of the Compur Leicas over the ordinary ones is exposure times longer than 1/20 sec. 

 

The disadvantage - apart from the cost and increased bulk - is that the shutter cocking and release are not coupled to the wind knob and release button on the body. So for each shot you have to advance the film, cock the shutter, check focus (because it's easy to disturb the focus setting while cocking the shutter), release the shutter with the little lever or a cable release, and finally press the button on the body to release the mechanism so you can wind on for the next shot. 

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[Wayne]

Thanks, sounds kind of like my old Rolleichord.

 

Best

 

Wayne

[luigi bertolotti]

The Leica Compur is so "historical" that I think that using it regularly is a someway delicate question... the Compur shutter (made by Deckel of München) is indeed a great engineering achievement : simple, precise, reliable... until some years ago there were dozens of labs who could "fix a Compur" given that it was used into an impressive number of cameras, many of them bound to heavy professional usage (Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, various Studio cameras brands...) : I don't know if situation of maintenance is still good today.... probably the 2nd version of Leica Compur ("Rim set") has a certain capability to be maintained.... I remember to have read somewhere that the Compur assembly is rather easy to dismantle from the Elmar, so that you can have a separate CLA of shutter and lens.... by contrast, the film advance mechanism is obviously simpler thatn in standard FP shutter Leicas, and probably it has no problems; the body in itself could suffer of a typical "age defect" of old Leicas, to say light leaks from the bottom plate, slightly deformed by year of usage, wear, knocks etc... 

Frankly, should I buy a Compur, I'd use it once a year, operate the shutter any 2-3 months (as I do with the Compurs of my Rolleiflex and Super Ikonta...  ) and in practical would keep it as a collectible...

Edited May 30, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[willeica]

I agree with everything that Luigi says about the Compur model. Wayne's question raises interesting general questions about what the differences are between the collector and user markets. For the former rarity and desirability are the main criteria whereas for the latter usability and functionality are top of the list. Rarity is a matter of simple numbers whereas desirability is a more difficult to measure. When chrome models were first introduced in the 1930s they were sold by Leica for a higher price than the existing black and nickel models but the reverse is now true in the collector market over 80 years later. Original condition is a sort of 'holy grail' for some collectors. Thus upgraded (even by Leica) models which would have greater functionality from a user point of view would be considered less desirable by collectors. It's a funny old world.

 

It is interesting that Wayne's 'either or' involves the M-D which is basically a stripped down or 'partially de-commissioned' M240 which goes in the opposite direction to the upgraded models of the 1930s. Apparently, the interest in the M60 encouraged Leica to introduce the M-D. It will be interesting to see whether this concept carries over into the next generation of the digital M. It is way too early to be talking about collectibility, but I have seen some discussion on these pages about early digital models being regarded as collectors items at this time.

 

William

[Wayne]

When I was a boy, my father had a rangefinder camera- I forget the brand- and I can still remember the first time he let me use it to take a photograph. The initial experience of the rangefinder patch was so mesmerizing that it is one of the most vivid memories of my youth. By the time I reached my teens the rangefinder, with the exception of Leica, was pretty much a thing of the past so the first camera I was able to purchase was a Vivitar SLR.....the price of a Leica, any Leica, made ownership of the brand a pipe dream. As the expense of film and development was a heavy burden to my limited means, I would ponder a perfect camera; it would include a rangefinder patch and produce photographs instantly......with no need for development or film. It was the mid 1970s and top of the line digital technology consisted of Texas Instruments calculators, so my imagined "perfect" camera had no LCD.

 

My introduction to the M-D was a recent article in a different BLOG I frequent. As the announcement was made in early April- maybe even April 1- it was speculated that it was just somebody's idea of an April Fools day joke. I was disappointed that it probably was a joke....I mean, how in the world could Leica be seriously contemplating production of something that was conjured in the simple mind of a 1970s teenager? 

 

Thanks for commentary on the Compur. I think I will go with the M-D. It is such an unlikely camera. How long can such a camera be available? How often do you see the wild dreams of your youth realized?

[pgk]

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What are the greatest pitfalls of owning this camera,? is it as repairable as a IA with Elmar?  Is it a special purpose camera?

 

Its interesting that even very old Leicas are still very much seen as usable cameras.

 

Imagine owning a car as old. Drivable, well yes possibly, if still working, Usable, well yes obviously, but at a high cost in terms of specialist servicing and parts. But would one be viable as an everyday or even weekly vehicle? Well perhaps/maybe, only given sufficient high investment I would say and even so not really a very practical proposition.

 

Now whilst that same scenario is not entirely true for cameras, old ones will be more prone to need servicing and parts may even need to be made (possible at a price) and so they will be relatively costly to run, relative that is to a model with plentiful parts availability anyway. But for occasional use such a camera would be great fun to have and put a film through once every so often.

[sumolux]

When chrome models were first introduced in the 1930s they were sold by Leica for a higher price than the existing black and nickel models but the reverse is now true in the collector market over 80 years later. Original condition is a sort of 'holy grail' for some collectors. Thus upgraded (even by Leica) models which would have greater functionality from a user point of view would be considered less desirable by collectors. It's a funny old world.

 

 

William

 

 

Hi William, 

I have to disagree with you on this; I see time and time again on sales site of Leica specialists that Leica's upgraded from say IA to IID are more highly priced compared to original IID's, rather to my amazement. Perhpas you are talking about some very specific models here?

[sumolux]

P.S. One aspect of the M-D little discussed is that of the digital offerings, it might be the only digital camera that will not be obsolete in 25 years, unless one is discussing mere megapixel counts...Software updates? Phhheauw! 

[willeica]

Hi William, 

I have to disagree with you on this; I see time and time again on sales site of Leica specialists that Leica's upgraded from say IA to IID are more highly priced compared to original IID's, rather to my amazement. Perhpas you are talking about some very specific models here?

 

You are looking at this the wrong way around. A four digit I Model A in original condition will sell for much more money than one which has been upgraded to a II Model D.

 

William

[willeica]

P.S. One aspect of the M-D little discussed is that of the digital offerings, it might be the only digital camera that will not be obsolete in 25 years, unless one is discussing mere megapixel counts...Software updates? Phhheauw! 

 I threw this out as something of a 'curveball'. It is likely that the M-D will be more rare than other M240/262 models but to predict it as a future collector's item is a bit difficult at this stage. I have many film cameras in my collection but, as of now, I treat all digital cameras as 'user' items. I won't be buying the M-D as I already have an M240. If I want to use it like the M-D, I can just put a cover or sticker over the rear screen.

 

William