Umfundisi Posted May 28, 2016 Share #1 Posted May 28, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica prides itself on making most of its products in Germany - and uses this notion in much of its marketing. And while I accept that many products are actually assembled in Wetzlar, I ask myself how much we actually know about the extent to which (electronic) components are only cobbled together there. How much do we know about the in-house production depth of Leica products? More to the point: how much of the product is engineered in Germany, how much of the final value of the product lies in its components and how much value is added in Wetzlar? Is enough value added in Wetzlar for the product to actually qualify as being made in Germany? Research along these lines has been done about Apple products, but I have never come across a similar analysis for Leica. Anyone have any answers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 Hi Umfundisi, Take a look here Leica made in Germany?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted May 28, 2016 Share #2 Posted May 28, 2016 Enough of a Leica is made in Germany to satisfy the EU and International rules with regards to the legality of such a claim. Provided, of course, it says "Made in Germany" on the camera, not just "Leica Camera, Germany" Lots of the bits of a Leica camera are assembled in their factory in Portugal and then shipped to Germany for final assembly. You do know that a lot of the lens glass doesn't come from Germany, don't you? IMHO, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter one iota what happens where. I have had Leica cameras which I know have been 100% assembled in Portugal, and others which have been part Portuguese assembly, part German. It matters not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 28, 2016 Share #3 Posted May 28, 2016 Made in Canada in the past as well. In Japan too. Leica - and Zeiss- microscopes are mostly made in China. Utterly uninteresting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 28, 2016 Share #4 Posted May 28, 2016 I an not concerned to know that I was conceived in San Francisco and born all the way across the country in a little town in Rhode Island. Arguments regarding Canadian and German can go back and forth, for example certain lenses made early in Canada can be argued to be superior as evinced by the fresh, early hand assembly, lower daily production and the superiority of Canadian beer. To be facetious, . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted May 29, 2016 Share #5 Posted May 29, 2016 I an not concerned to know that I was conceived in San Francisco and born all the way across the country in a little town in Rhode Island. Arguments regarding Canadian and German can go back and forth, for example certain lenses made early in Canada can be argued to be superior as evinced by the fresh, early hand assembly, lower daily production and the superiority of Canadian beer. To be facetious, . Your claim proved to be wrong when beer entered your thought. [emoji482][emoji1] Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umfundisi Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted May 29, 2016 I'm completely with you guys when you say that "it matters not ..." - at least not for IQ, reliability, value for money etc. And I'm perfectly happy with my Leica glass made in Germany AND Canada, as well as my Zeiss glass made by Cosina in Japan. Still, I was (and am still) curious ... - but this curiosity doesn't get in the way of what all the stuff is actually made for, no matter where or by whom in a globalized world: getting out there and taking photographs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 29, 2016 Share #7 Posted May 29, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your claim proved to be wrong when beer entered your thought. [emoji482][emoji1] Funny how often that happens! I will go on record saying that German beer steins are definitely superior, and often conveyed in the most interesting manner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxofrome Posted May 29, 2016 Share #8 Posted May 29, 2016 The concept of "Made in." does not comply to an international rules that all the country have to respect. Italy and Germany for example have a very different legislation about such concept and I think this can be related to the rest of the world. What we can expect is that part of the high price of a Leica camera is related (not only) to the fact that labour are well paid and the production and assembly is done with all the respect of national and international legislation in term of safety and environmental respect. The willing that one camera is "made" 100% in a specific country is probably something related to the past. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2016 Share #9 Posted May 29, 2016 One aspect - I recently found out that even Customer Service is internationalized. Binoculars ( and presumably spotting scopes) are received in Wetzlar, where the paperwork is done, and forwarded to Portugal for repair, which makes sense, as that is where they are made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 29, 2016 Share #10 Posted May 29, 2016 Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik does a lot of the camera/lens metal machining for Leica (lens barrels, maybe top/bottom plates) - since about 1994. Now located literally next door to Leica in the current Leica-Park in Wetzlar. Not sure of the corporate relationship - the business relationship was set up to widely separate the metalworking (and associated shavings, etc.) from the lens and final assembly factory, and devote more space in the Solms Leica factory for the latter. http://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/de/inhalt/home.html Jenoptik (formerly Carl Zeiss Jena - East Germany) has done work for Leica, notably the electronics design and firmware for the digital M8. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2016 Share #11 Posted May 29, 2016 Uwe Weller was a Leica employee until he set up his own business with help from Leica AFAIK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 31, 2016 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2016 I have one of the last M4-P that says 'Made by Leitz Canada' on the body but was in fact built in Wetzlar from the last remaining parts and sold that way in Europe by Leica, sort that out. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 31, 2016 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2016 Research along these lines has been done about Apple products, but I have never come across a similar analysis for Leica. Anyone have any answers? Few businesses report their sourcing methodology. One which does is this: https://www.fairphone.com; but its a specialised, ethical company sourcing ethically throughout and marketing accordingly. It would be interesting for other companies to publish some data on sourcing practices but its a far from common practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted June 4, 2016 Share #14 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) It doesn't really matter were something is made and assembled. The "culture" of the Company that produces that item is more important than anything else. Leica successfully demonstrated this when they were manufacturing in Canada. The management that led that company were mostly German expats. I'm sure there are a lot of German managers at the Leica Portugal facility and they seem to be doing fine. Does the assembly technician have to be German? I really don't think so because Porsche, Mercedes and BMW have a lot of immigrant workers from Southern Europe in their factories. Edited June 4, 2016 by sc_rufctr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 4, 2016 Share #15 Posted June 4, 2016 http://www.spiegel.de/karriere/ausland/leica-portugal-deutsche-arbeitskultur-in-der-kamera-fabrik-a-829826.html You may need Google Translate, it is in German. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 4, 2016 Share #16 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) More to the point: how much of the product is engineered in Germany, how much of the final value of the product lies in its components and how much value is added in Wetzlar? ... To answer this question it would be fine that someone would do for present Digital Ms (and SL) the fantastic work that Mark Norton did in 2007 on M8, and published in the Forum (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/21079-anatomy-of-the-leica-m8/page-1) When you understand the sub-assemblies from which a complex device like a digital camera is built, you can imagine (and even know, with some informations about) from which kind of manufacturing facility those sub-assemblies come from (you have machined metal parts, electronic boards plus cabling, complex subassemblies like Viewfinder/Rangefinder and Shutter, small plastic components, small metal components, engraved parts, stickers, accessories like battery etc...). As a Leica passionate, and working professionally also in the field of Engineering BOM - Manufacturing BOM Management, I confess that would like a lot to "steal" these kind of data from some Server of Leica Manufacturing Dept... ... I'd be very curios to make a comparision of the EBOMs of , say, M240 and M7 to see how much are exactly the SAME components (in rigorous terms - code by code... a typical task for PLM Software...)... the two cameras have a very similar look but I suspect that at BOM level, no more than 5% (maybe less) of the product codes are exactly the same.. Edited June 4, 2016 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 4, 2016 Share #17 Posted June 4, 2016 BOM? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 4, 2016 Share #18 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) BOM? Sorry.... .... Bill - Of - Material... the list of basic products that make up an assembled item ... (arranged at the various levels of sub-assemblies, with codes, costs, quantity, source, referenced drawings etc...). Important item managed by Design & Manufacturing Software... Edited June 4, 2016 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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