New, old camera

[Wayne]

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I have, despite my best effort to avoid it, become a collector. My collection consists of various Barnack cameras that have been converted but have numbers to indicate they were initially IA model cameras. So far I have IA, IIIA, Standard, and now, with my latest, a II. The photos below are of the II. The numbers suggest it was at one time a four digit IA. Not being an expert, I thought I would ask the experts if they see anything suggesting it was not a four digit IA. Lens is a 50mm Elmar with no numbers.

 

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[willeica]

Looks genuine, Wayne. The top plate would be a complete replacement with extra screws etc. If it is still the original bottom plate the opening catch would have a bar across the centre. This might have been replaced as well, of course. 

 

William

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[Wayne]

Thanks, Will. My IA is a close-focus camera, I guess manufactured for sale in either England or America, as the bottom plate is marked with Open/Close rather than Auf/Zu; the new camera is Auf/Zu. Other than that- and the different sized tripod fitting (Open/Close= small, while Auf/Zu= large) the bottom plates look pretty much identical. I already have film in it, so I will have wait in order to compare guts.

[willeica]

The bar is on the outside in the middle of the catch handle; I can post a photo if you wish. It is on all early 1 Model As, certainly on my two four digit models with SNs 1xxx and 9xxx and another 5 digit with SN 1xxxx. The absence of this would not mean that your camera is not a genuine 4 digit SN 1 Model A, but its presence would confirm it. The chances are that the bottom plate was replaced at the time of the upgrade. I have a Standard which was upgraded from a 1 Model A with a five digit SN 2xxxx. It also has an Elmar with no SN but with a 7O'Clock infinity stop on the mount. I believe that this was the standard practice for such upgrades after the introduction of the 7 O'Clock mount. It seems that they matched the lens head to a new mount with a '0' to indicated standardisation.

 

I meant to say that your Model II (upgraded from 1A) is a very nice example.

 

William

[Wayne]

I am going to have to plead ignorance. I may be  misinterpreting "bar." If you have time, I will take you up on the offer of a photograph. Thanks for the help.

 

Best regards,

[Wayne]

I just did an internet search; I think I see what you are referring to. I guess I am going to have to chalk this one up to ignorance. I notice that there is a disparity in the configuration of quite a few cameras represented as IA. Some have a black rotating catch, and clearly a raised center portion, i.e. "bar," but just as many seem to have a silver rotating catch, without the bar.

[Pecole]

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I have, despite my best effort to avoid it, become a collector. My collection consists of various Barnack cameras that have been converted but have numbers to indicate they were initially IA model cameras. So far I have IA, IIIA, Standard, and now, with my latest, a II. The photos below are of the II. The numbers suggest it was at one time a four digit IA. Not being an expert, I thought I would ask the experts if they see anything suggesting it was not a four digit IA. Lens is a 50mm Elmar with no numbers.

 

DSCF5442.jpg

 

DSCF5445.jpg

 

Hi, Wayne.

I just read your thread when - by pure chance - finishing drafting a list of the upgraded Leica I (A) I had in my Fontenelle Collection. As it may be of interest to you, here is the list :

- Leica I © with standard mount nº 10546 (1928). With square accessory shoe.

- Leica II black and chrome nº 5396 (1927).

- Leica II nº 15476 (1929), large diameter speed dial, one only screw instead of three on the back of the top cover.

- Leica II nº 60244 (1931), "lavatory seat".

- Leica Standard black nº 30209 (1930), large diameter speed dial, square accessory shoe, "thin" extensible rewind knob.

- Leica III nº 765, upgraded from a Leica I of the very first 1925 production run.

- Leica IIc rebuilt from a Leica III, itself upgraded from a 1928 Leica I (A).

- Leica IIIa syn nº 41438, with both Reich's time "DRP" and post-war "GmbH" engravings.

- Leica IIIa syn nº 43900.

[Wayne]

I have been searching the web for photos of Barnack cameras bearing IA serial numbers but, apparently, converted to later models. In all cases the bottom plate catch mechanism appears to be the later, silver variety not having the bar. After much consideration I speculate the reason for this may be related to the fact that take-up reels are not interchangeable between all models of Barnack cameras. I would guess, when modified/upgraded, Leica would alter the upgraded cameras to accept the take-up reel appropriate for the newer model type. I would also guess it would be easier to install a new bottom plate, than to alter the existing plate.......Am I off base in my speculation?

[Wayne]

The lens cap coming with this camera is unique to all other black paint lens caps I own in that the the inside surface of the lens cap face is covered with dark felt- or possibly mohair- that does not exist in the other caps. The overall patina of this cap strongly suggests that it is much older than any of my other caps. The other caps have no lining on the same surface. The lens face impression in the material, along with the fact that the material is so well fitted, suggests the material is original to the cap.

 

Additionally, I have made a point of trying to acquire period Leica Ever-Ready leather cases for the cameras; this camera came with a case. This new case is also a bit unique to the collection in that it does not include a securing screw/knob to hold the camera in the case. I must trust in gravity to hold the camera in while the case is not closed.........fortunately, gravity is about as trustworthy as anything.

 

Another thing that gives me some confidence this is  truly an converted IA model is the feel of film advance: it is sensibly smoother, like all of my ostensible converts, than either my IIIc or IIIg.

[willeica]

I'm not sure why Leica made the changes.  I have another I Model A with SN 16xxx and with the newer catch on the outside and the old arrangement on the inside of the baseplate. The take-up spools appear to be interchangeable between the different types of base-plate. I have one take-up spool that is very stiff to get in and out but it may be 'third party'. There were a lot of changes during the life of the of the I Model A which are difficult to spot. von Einem has identified 10 different variants of the I Model A. The Elmar lens itself underwent quite a few changes during that period but they are hard to spot.

 

Some of the older ERCs from that period contain no screw in on the base. One case I have for the I Model C with a holder in the lid for the FODIS rangefinder is called the ESMIT. It has no screw in the base but it has a 'shoulder strap' to hold in camera. That will not work with the Model II, however.  The original case for the I Model A was the ETRIN which looks like a purse but this will not take the Model II. Most copies of that I have seen have seen have a half-moon clasp. I also have an early one from 1926 with a rectangular clasp with sloping sides. For the Model II, the ESNAR case with the appropriate size screw would be appropriate. The 1933 Leica UK General catalogue shows an ESNAR with a screw in the bottom

 

Your lens cap looks appropriate for the period.

 

Finally, I would not worry too much about 'correct' cases, lens caps, take up spools etc. The chances are that any camera which has been around for over 85 years will have had some changes to its accessories during that period. There is also some indication of some variation in what Leica supplied via its dealer network at that time. The fun is in trying to get something that is 'in period'.  That is what drives us collectors into spending time and money on our hobby.

 

William

[Wayne]

I have finished the first roll. Here is the inside of the base plate. This one is unique to my other cameras; I have never seen this loading instruction plate before......at least that I can remember. I also notice the  boss on the left is not circular, even though there is room for it to be circular. It made me think of my old 1957 BMW motorcycle- R5, I believe: in cross section the Earles forks were oblong/eliptical, rather than circular. It too was an engineering masterpiece. I could drink beer, smoke cigars, and stare at it endlessly after parking it for the evening.

 

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