M-P (240) LV exposure and shutter issues

[Infrandom]

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So I normally just hang out in the lens forum, but yesterday my M-P started acting up and it seems I had not been following all the issues others were having with black or white frames. I suppose this is a new twist, half black or half white. 

 

It started in the afternoon using the EVF2, about 25% of the shots I was taking were getting exposed correctly. The others were getting overexposed and in some the top half of the photo was exposed and the bottom half was solid white. 

 

Later that night I started experiementing and ruled out the EVF2 as part of the issue, the issue was when using Live View in general. I put in a fresh batter and a brand new San Disk Extreme card. Using the RF in Classic metering the camera fired and exposed rapidly with no issues. As soon as I switched into LV using the LCD however the camera would drastically under expose the shot and on occasion I would get the dark underexposed dark top half and half photo. Once in this state switching off live view would not close the shutter and the camera would not take a photo using the RF.

 

My camera is only 5 months old, and being that I live in Kazakhstan for work getting this our for repair is going to be a major hassle. I'm headed to London this weekend, can anyone help point me in the direction of the best place to contact for trying to get this sent off? I've got about 2 weeks until my trip back to the US, KZ only lets us carry one camera body out so its very sad that I might not be able to trust this on vacations until its resolved.

 

 

[dem331]

If the camera is not detecting the lens, whether it is 6-bit coded or not, try turning off lens detection. My M240p does not work with LV and automatic lens detection if the lens is not recognized.

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[Infrandom]

So I double checked t he lens detection setting. I had previous reset it before my experimentation last night. So I'm experiencing this problems with automatic detection on my Leica lens. Elmarit 2.8 28mm, Summicron 1.2 50mm and my Summilux 1.4 35mm FLE. Even upping the exposure compensation +2/+3 results in the same underexposed picture. 

 

I recorded a video to show the underexposure despite the metering looking right just before the shutter press. Occasionally the shutter is getting left open despite existing LV or turning off the camera. 

 

I am on the 2.0.3.0 firmware, updated about a month ago. 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Infrandom

[jaapv]

This is the place to go to in London:

 

https://www.leica-storemayfair.co.uk/pages/about-us

[Leicabuff]

I get also often underexposed photos and I blame myself for it because I am a newbie to RF. Have used SLRs for decades though.

 

Obviously the sexiest camera in the world is a B!tch.

[Infrandom]

I get also often underexposed photos and I blame myself for it because I am a newbie to RF. Have used SLRs for decades though.

 

Obviously the sexiest camera in the world is a B!tch.

This is a recent change though and it only occurs in LV. With LV off I'm getting normal exposures with the RF. I agree I love the camera but the reliability is disconcerting given the cost. The M experience is everything I was looking for though so I guess we out up with this.

[Leicabuff]

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@Infrandom, I am sure RF wouldn't cause too much trouble as it is an old technology, whereas LV is new and buggy. I need the LV/EVF-2 as I have poor vision despite 5 eye surgeries. I would have not bought the camera without the overpriced EVF-2. That thing has a 250% markup over the Olympus VF-2.

 

Yes, the issues are weighing a bit more, however, holding this camera in the hand feels a lot better than a Canon 5D III with handgrip. M-P feels like old times with smaller SLR cameras, it is almost the same size as R7, but perhaps a bit heavier, yet lighter lenses.

 

Is there any online venue from Leica for us to report issues and so they can fix things with the next firmware release? I know large German companies have that. I believe most of our troubles can be fixed with firmware update.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Leicabuff

[Exodies]

If your camera isn't working properly send it to Leica to be repaired. Email their customer service if you have a problem with the firmware.

[jaapv]

So I double checked t he lens detection setting. I had previous reset it before my experimentation last night. So I'm experiencing this problems with automatic detection on my Leica lens. Elmarit 2.8 28mm, Summicron 1.2 50mm and my Summilux 1.4 35mm FLE. Even upping the exposure compensation +2/+3 results in the same underexposed picture. 

 

I recorded a video to show the underexposure despite the metering looking right just before the shutter press. Occasionally the shutter is getting left open despite existing LV or turning off the camera. 

 

I am on the 2.0.3.0 firmware, updated about a month ago. 

 

Of course you got an underexposed image. You pointed the camera at the bright window behind the dog. If you want to check exposure, don't wave the camera around in a room with a low lit subject and bright outside light falling through the windows just behind. You'll never know what light you are measuring. You'll notice that the window is exposed correctly.

I bet you cannot replicate the problem with an evenly lit subject.

 

Lens detection has nothing to do with exposure, btw.

[dem331]

Of course you got an underexposed image. You pointed the camera at the bright window behind the dog. If you want to check exposure, don't wave the camera around in a room with a low lit subject and bright outside light falling through the windows just behind. You'll never know what light you are measuring. You'll notice that the window is exposed correctly.

I bet you cannot replicate the problem with an evenly lit subject.

 

Lens detection has nothing to do with exposure, btw.

 

No, of course lens detection has nothing to do with exposure. 

 

When I read the OP I though that it might be a problem with LV not operating properly when lens detection is not detecting the lens.  With an uncoded lens my LV will shut off after 2 seconds if lens detection is on automatic, but will operate correctly if set to off.  I have read other users reporting this anomaly.

 

Obviously this is not the problem here, so maybe I have just confused the OP, if so apologies.

 

I agree that the camera in the video appears to be operating properly.  The OP should be aware that although he is using focus magnification to zoom in on the dog's face, the camera is not metering that area exclusively, but the oval shape that covers 1/3 of the central area of the full image, which as Jaap says, mainly contains the window which is correctly exposed.

 

Either take a picture outside where light is even, or take an exposure reading from a darker part of the room excluding the window, or use spot metering in LV to meter some average tone part of the dog (I have never used this on the M), or go to manual exposure and increase whatever the camera reads by approx three stops to compensate for the bright window.

 

 

[pop]

....With an uncoded lens my LV will shut off after 2 seconds if lens detection is on automatic....

 

You can set your camera to shut LV  off if it can not detect a lens. It appears that yours is set that way.

[dem331]

You can set your camera to shut LV  off if it can not detect a lens. It appears that yours is set that way.

 

Really?  That is very interesting. How do I do remove that?  Guilty of not reading the users manual.

[dem331]

Philipp, my problem seems to be similar to the one described in this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242320-live-view-shuts-down-after-2-sg/  which you also contributed to. 

 

With a coded 28mm summicron ASPH, which the camera does not detect as coded, LV shuts down after 2 seconds and I get the message no lens detected. (Lens detection set to Automatic)

 

If I turn lens detection off, LV works perfectly. 

 

Thanks.

[jaapv]

This is the classic metering pattern of the M9 (Thanks to Lindolfi) On the M240 it should not be much different.

 

I think that the difference the OP is noticing to his previous experience comes from a change of his exposure preview settings in the update.

 

 

 

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[pop]

Philipp, my problem seems to be similar to the one described in this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242320-live-view-shuts-down-after-2-sg/  which you also contributed to. 

 

With a coded 28mm summicron ASPH, which the camera does not detect as coded, LV shuts down after 2 seconds and I get the message no lens detected. (Lens detection set to Automatic)

 

If I turn lens detection off, LV works perfectly. 

 

Thanks.

I just tried to locate that information in the manual, but I couldn't find it.

 

You're quite right: if you turn lens detection off, LV works, even if there is no lens attached. 

[Leicabuff]

@Infrandom, OK, I just read the user manual. Your setting is Classic and Centre-weighted. This is what the user manual say about that setting:

 

"This method takes account of the entire image field, although the parts of the subject situated in the center have more influence on the exposure value calculation than the areas at the margins."

 

So both Jaap and dem331 are correct. I like to use spot metering and then the dog would be perfectly correct exposed but some part of the image, like the window, would be overexposed. However, that is easily fixable with PS.

 

Or try Multi-Field metering:

"This metering method is based on detection of multiple metered values. The values are used in an algorithm to calculate an exposure value appropriate to the situation, resulting in correct reproduction of the assumed main subject."

 

I think that would give a better result than the Classic and Centre-weighted in your room situation.

 

I am used to the Fighter-Jet-Honeycomb-Screen when metering. This is simple.

 

Yes, user manual is your friend.

[Infrandom]

I've done the same thing at night in a different room facing away from windows using only interior lighting. I suppose my point was using the same ISO on A-priority not using LV the camera sets the shutter speed to 1/30 and exposes perfectly. Switching to LV i half press the shutter to meter, the dot comes showing the metering exposing right but when it takes the photo is suddenly changed to a faster shutter speed resulting in the under exposure. I can do the same thing without windows in the background. I've even tried setting an exposure compensation of +1, +2, and +3 and still resulted in a dark photo.  

 

I'm going to recheck again tonight to see if I missed something. I had set the metering method to center to try and eliminate other issues I was seeing with multi-field. All this started happening in the last few days. I think in the end I'll be making my first stop in London over to the Leica store to try and get their take on it. I'll just make sure the warranty card comes along for the ride.

 

I appreciate the feedback. I'm definitely trying to convince myself there is nothing wrong with the camera but something seems off. I've take many photos in the same living room under the same conditions or even more back light and its never done this before. The dog is my most used model. 

[Leicabuff]

I think you need to go to the Leica Store in London.

 

So your awesome dog is the built-in model in your Leica M-P. I guess I need a dog now to figure out my Leica journey.

[jaapv]

Try switching your exposure simulation to "permanent."

Updating the firmware resets it to "rel. button halfpress" which may confuse the issue.

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[Exodies]

The advanced centre weighted meter is a simulation of the classic one. In advanced mode the shutter is open while metering so the light isn't bounced off the curtain. Unless I've misunderstood something.

 

The M 240 was mounted on a tripod, the room is illuminated by a halogen bulb. I took two photographs one with classic centre weighted the other with advanced centre weighted metering. Liveview off in both cases.

 

Classic exposure details and histogram

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Advanced exposure details and histogram

 

 

The aperture estimate is different for each exposure. The actual aperture was 5.6. The auto white balance is the same temperature for both but the tint is -17 for classic and -18 for advanced.

 

(The camera clock is two hours slow due to it having had the GPS controlling it previously.)

 

It just shows that exposure is more art than science. While we're on metering, is there a way to judge the size of the 5 degree spot meter circle in the viewfinder window?