Pleased with new P800

[Jeff S]

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After 7 years of reliable use from my Epson 3800,  I recently bought and installed the P800.  

 

The 3800, which still works and has over a half set of inks, will go to a local school.  I was going going to save it for dedicated b/w use, running Piezography, but decided instead to install ImagePrint 10.  I've seen results from both processes, and IP quality is hard to distinguish in most cases, with IP being far more user friendly, especially after I set it up as an external editor within LR.  George DeWolfe, whom I respect as a b/w printer, evidently agrees...    https://www.colorbytesoftware.com/Ver10/Reviews/BandW_Master_Print.htm

 

While IP is pricey (it costs the same $895 as I paid for the printer, which was discounted $300 from $1195), it was still less expensive than purchasing an i1 device that I was considering for making custom profiles.  One of the benefits of IP is that it already comes with terrific profiles for every paper I'd ever consider using.

 

I'm thrilled with both the new printer as well as the results using ImagePrint 10.   Even before the inevitable tweaks, I made prints that I had previously run on the 3800, both b/w and color, and there were already some improvements.  Additionally, the print feed mechanisms are improved over the 3800 (not to mention the new roll feed option, which I've yet to purchase), and the machine runs much quieter.

 

As an aside, I also splurged a bit and treated myself to an Esterly Speedmat 3240 wall mounted mat cutter.  It not only saves counter space for my matting and framing needs, but makes cutting mats far more convenient, accurate and repeatable than my old Logan 650.....and makes cutting larger mats or double mats a breeze.

 

I often get more satisfaction from these types of print workflow improvements than I do from new camera/lens gear.  Now I just need to go out and make some more print worthy pics...

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Thanks for your comments Jeff. Your comments on Imageprint are interesting. I bought the P800 and was going to convert my old Epson 2880 to Piezography B and W. I have been a bit reluctant to make the investment on a printer which while working ok could give up the ghost. Your solution with IP makes more sense. Definite food for thought.

BrianP

Edited April 13, 2016 by Guest

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[Jeff S]

I'm glad to be rid of the often unannounced, behind the scenes, issues running the Apple-Adobe-Epson chain, notably screwing around with color management.  IP skips all that and, even more, it avoids having to constantly check and/or revise printer settings for different papers and applications.  Each paper profile comes embedded with all the necessary settings to most effectively run on my machine.  And each paper comes with a both a color and gray profile, the latter doing a better job IMO than Epson ABW, and without having to change the Epson driver to manage colors.  In addition, each profile has choices for different print display lighting conditions....daylight, tungsten, mixed, etc.

 

IP is always in soft proof mode, so WYSIWYG, and I find it to be more accurate than the LR soft proofing.  IP 10 now also allows one to adjust output sharpening before printing, with preview changes visible.  The toning and split-toning features are also impressive.

 

Most importantly, although it's early for me, the print quality is impressive....color and b/w, without need for a dedicated b/w printer and continuous fill cartridges.  [i do wish, however, that Epson didn't skimp a lousy 16ml on the P800 'starter' cartridges.  Even my 3800 came with a full set.]

 

Anyway, so far, so good.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Hi Jeff

I am assuming that you mean your cartridges came with only 16 ml of ink in each and not 16ml less than the 80 ml a normal full cartridge holds. In the UK the price was £970 for the printer but the cartridges had 65ml in each . I also got an extended warranty to 3 years in the deal.I assume that this is Epson global strategy to offer the printer at a low price over the pond. A full set of cartridges over here is £320.00 but each one is "full".

I downloaded the IP manual last night and it makes interesting reading especially after reading your posts which are as always very informative. The cost is expensive but there are many benefits. 

BrianP

[Jeff S]

 

I am assuming that you mean your cartridges came with only 16 ml of ink in each and not 16ml less than the 80 ml a normal full cartridge holds. 

 

No, they come with 64ml.....which is what I meant to indicate by 'skimping' on a lousy 16ml...would it have killed them to just make them 80ml to start (as with the 3800)?   The good news, as I said, is that I received $300 in rebates.   The profits are in the inks, not the machines, so I guess this really shouldn't be surprising....just mildly irritating.  I hope that's the worst I ever have to say about the printer.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Following on from reading about ImagePrint10" IP" I have been getting some info which was all very positive and was about to place an order, until I found out that UK customs definitely do not want me to have the programme. ( grin )

The customs charges increase the cost by 30% which makes the price around $1350.No wonder the UK is known as treasure island. I have always fancied a short break in New York and this year it could happen?

BrianP

[Jeff S]

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The customs charges increase the cost by 30% which makes the price around $1350.No wonder the UK is known as treasure island.

 

That's 50% more than the US $895 price for 17 inch printer version.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

That's 50% more than the US $895 price for 17 inch printer version.

 

Jeff

 

The base price is still the same at $895 which I am comfortable with ,especially after having exchanged a few emails with John Panozzo at Colour Byte Software who obviously has a great product and gives a good service.$100 to ship in 3 days fully tracked is OK? as it is a one off but UK customs then add 30% .If I where a business I could reclaim most of that but as an individual I can not.It is a pity that the programme can not be just downloaded, but the way the programme is set up and activated with a dongle means this is not possible.Upgrades can be downloaded if and when they are needed.

There may be a workaround ? but failing that I have always fancied a few days in New York and would just have it shipped to my Hotel.

I bet the complete kit will fit in a jacket pocket. Anyway I am not just going to give up until I have tried a few options. If I could just download it I would be running it before I go to bed tonight.

BrianP

Edited April 18, 2016 by Guest

[Jeff S]

The package they sent me had a 5 x 7.5 inch thin plastic case that included the software on CD (4.75 inch diameter), the dongle and some paper instructions.

 

Keep in mind that future upgrades, which are optional, are not free....I think they cost about a third of the initial price.

 

I always like excuses to visit NYC (a couple of hours on train).

 

PS....don't know if you subscribe to LuLa (Luminous Landscape)....a mere $12 per year....but everyone there seems to love IP....multiple positive reviews over the years from Michael, Kevin and Marc Dubovoy.....all picky printers.  The LuLa forums are free, and include discussions on the topic.

 

Jeff

Edited April 18, 2016 by Jeff S

[Guest]

I have been a big fan of LuLa for a good number of years and its a bargain at $12 per annum. Very good content especially from the other Jeff ( S ).

Read about IP for some time but your input on this thread has made me move mainly as I have the Epson P800 which is a great performer.

Been a development in the last 60 min so expect to have it up and running pretty soon.

BrianP

[robert blu]

Interesting read Jeff, thanks. I'm in the process to buy a new printer and even if usually I do not print very large (I love the intimate feel from small prints!) I'm thinking of the 800, price difference form the 600 is around 400 EUR which I think I can recover from the inks cost in a relative short time, hopefully!

 

Still a couple of doubts, one is relate the possibility of having clogging heads when not using the printer for a long (how long?) time and the other is about switching from the black inks when changing paper (glossy/matt), in reality this should not be a problem because I mainly print on matt paper.

 

A comment from a real user would be from my side very appreciated, thanks in advance if you have time for a comment!

 

robert

[sanyasi]

I used ImagePrint for three or four years, until their dongle failed.  If I recall correctly, they wanted to charge me $150 or so to replace it.  Their copy protection, but I should pay to replace it when it fails.  I chose not replace it.  The interface to this software is terrible--goes back to a DOS style interface.  The only reason to use this software is for the custom icc profiles.  For me, the difference was not significant enough (if even noticeable) to outweigh the lousy interface.

[Jeff S]

I didn't experience clog problems with the 3800 as long as I ran a print through every few weeks, even if just a test print.  The 3880 was better refined in this regard, which is why Epson was careful to incorporate the same platform in the P800, so as not to ruin a proven reliable thing.  In any event, I find it good practice to always run a nozzle check before a serious print session.

 

I almost always use photo black, but changing inks is no problem....it just wastes some in the process.

 

Look for discounts and rebates on the printer, both from Epson and from dealers.....there is always one around the corner, as the machines are really just enticements for Epson to sell the inks, which is where the profit margin is (and likely why all the new machines now force a change from earlier machines to SureColor inks).....just like companies promoting razors to sell razor blades.

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

I used ImagePrint for three or four years, until their dongle failed.  If I recall correctly, they wanted to charge me $150 or so to replace it.  Their copy protection, but I should pay to replace it when it fails.  I chose not replace it.  The interface to this software is terrible--goes back to a DOS style interface.  The only reason to use this software is for the custom icc profiles.  For me, the difference was not significant enough (if even noticeable) to outweigh the lousy interface.

 

You've repeated this many times.  Version 9, and now version 10, have better interface....and so far I find it just fine as a final edit process to LR.  I wouldn't be so happy with it, despite the profiles, if I didn't notice print quality improvements, which I do.   The interface could surely be better, but not a big deal for me, especially given the many benefits.

 

Did you give it up prior to version 9?   That was a jump in image quality, not just interface.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

I used ImagePrint for three or four years, until their dongle failed.  If I recall correctly, they wanted to charge me $150 or so to replace it.  Their copy protection, but I should pay to replace it when it fails.  I chose not replace it.  The interface to this software is terrible--goes back to a DOS style interface.  The only reason to use this software is for the custom icc profiles.  For me, the difference was not significant enough (if even noticeable) to outweigh the lousy interface.

 

Correct me if I have got it wrong, but you used the programme for 4 years ?.

if it's so bad I am surprised you continued to use it for so long. If one of my apple devices failed after 4 years I doubt apple would give me any sort of rebate ,same applies to a dongle after 4 years.

I can fully understand if you did not like Image print, we are all very different and have different expectations. Many people are delighted with IP . 

BrianP

[sanyasi]

I used it on and off.  I was highly skeptical that it made that much of a difference.  I have never been a fan of the Epson print driver interface, either.  

 

I find that the software that came with my new Canon Prograf 1000 printer is the best print software I have ever used.  It is simple and straight-forward.

 

As for replacing the dongle, I developed and sold my own software for over a decade. It was copy-protected.  If a user's software copy protection file became corrupted, I would provide a replacement.  True, someone might have tried to rip me off to get a second working version of the software, but I don't think that happened too often.  

 

As for Imageprint and many of the other tools marketed to photographers:  None of them make a crappy photograph good.  In my view, many photographers operate under the mistaken impression that more precision makes for better photographs.  Often the tools just make life more complicated for the photographer.

[Jeff S]

Likewise, the Canon won't make you a better photographer....but you love to write about it....would be nice if others who are pleased with the P800 could do the same without the controversy.

 

For me, as I said, IP bypasses much of the Apple/Epson complications...not just with settings, but with color management.  It makes things simpler, not more complicated.  If you use Apple O/S, then Canon is likely not immune to similar issues.

 

BTW, you never answered the questions regarding your IP version.

 

Jeff

Edited April 19, 2016 by Jeff S

[Exodies]

I run a nozzle check print through my P800 every week under the assumption that this is an insignificant amount of ink. But is it a thorough enough keep-alive activity?

[sanyasi]

Likewise, the Canon won't make you a better photographer....but you love to write about it....would be nice if others who are pleased with the P800 could do the same without the controversy.

 

For me, as I said, IP bypasses much of the Apple/Epson complications...not just with settings, but with color management.  It makes things simpler, not more complicated.  If you use Apple O/S, then Canon is likely not immune to similar issues.

 

BTW, you never answered the questions regarding your IP version.

 

Jeff

 

No controversy.  I just get tired of your snotty tone.  If Jeff uses it, it is great.  If he doesn't, not great.  There is a dismissive tone to most of your posts.  I have noticed it for a long time.

 

As for writing about it, I posted a lengthy personal review because I liked the printer and wanted to share my experience.  Up to that point, like many photographers, I had been captive to Epson, which produced a problematic printer--one that lots of people had trouble with.  Every time I posted an update, you went out of your way to argue about it.  All I was doing was giving my personal observations.

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[Guest]

No controversy.  I just get tired of your snotty tone.  If Jeff uses it, it is great.  If he doesn't, not great.  There is a dismissive tone to most of your posts.  I have noticed it for a long time.

 

As for writing about it, I posted a lengthy personal review because I liked the printer and wanted to share my experience.  Up to that point, like many photographers, I had been captive to Epson, which produced a problematic printer--one that lots of people had trouble with.  Every time I posted an update, you went out of your way to argue about it.  All I was doing was giving my personal observations.

 

Forums are often about opinions and we all have our own. In your opinion lots of people had problems with Epson printers or was it one particular model. I have had the model 2400 (sold) 2880 and the P800. Never had any sort of problem with any of them or the software.I bought the P800 due to the good reputation of the previous A2 models and wanted to print bigger plus save on ink cost. I am sure the latest Cannon A2 printer is very good even without a role feed so highly unlikely I would buy it anyway.

Just a bit curious about the version of IP you found so bad .I am pretty sure version 10 is OK but if its as bad as you imply there is always the option to get a refund within 28 days.

BrianP