3.5cm f3.5 Summaron M-mount confusion.

[Antonio Madureira]

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Assolutamente corretto Signor Bertolotti, grazie mille.

I can see a very small mark of some surgery on bayonet lug, and I take mesurements to compare the lug dimentions of 50mm Elmar (9,43mm)  and my 35 Summaron (8,19mm), so some wonderfull gentleman some time ago, made a nice work, on my lens.

By the way I have a very nice (actually two) Minolta M Rokkor 28mm 1:2,8, whose bayonet lugs have been a litle stretched out, so they activate 28m frame in Leica M4-P and M6.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Antonio Madureira

[Chubkins]

Ah well. Received the aforementioned 3.5cm 3,5 lens today and saw that the mount had been filed and even worse, the focus was stiff around the infinity lock and the aperture ring was misaligned with the mark on the barrel. Otherwise it was a beautiful specimen with clean glass but not what I was hoping for. I'll be returning it as those things weren't disclosed in the condition of the sale.

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[Chubkins]

Alright! So the second one I ordered was spot on. Supreme copy of this lens. It's the later M2 version and is an amazing little jewel of a lens. And at $400 I feel it was a killer deal.

[Chubkins]

_{Here's some pictures. Still intrigued by that "2" designation in the pin lock. Though the way this thread is going seems like any info is not going to be forthcoming.}

 

 

 

[luigi bertolotti]

Maybe the "2" is an allusion to the fact that is a lens for M2 ?    given that the frame activation is related to the machining of the bayonet, depending on manufacturing cycles of those times, it could have a sense that, at the beginning of the "35mm frame era" (the lens is datable 1958... same times around M2 intro), they engraved something related to the maching of bayonet, for manufactuiring instructions purpose... in that year Summaron 3,5 was still built also in the goggled M3 version, which has a different machining of the bayonet.

 

Anyway... thanks for having evidenced this detail... when at home, I will surely inspect my item, which belongs to the same batch as yours (is 1.595.031) to see if it has also the "2" engraved (I'd bet not... but could be even that I never noticed it...  )

Edited June 9, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[Chubkins]

Yeah, it's interesting. In my past few weeks of research ( I admit I have limited knowledge as I just dived into Leica gear) it seems that some of these have the mark and some don't. I'd be interested in knowing how many of these versions were made as well. Whatever the case it's a spectacular little lens for both my M2 and my X Pro 2 kit. Someday I'll get the more expensive and better versions but for know this one is perfect.

[luigi bertolotti]

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... I'd be interested in knowing how many of these versions were made as well...

Well, in the Wiki section you find rather trustable data about, but for the M2 version to determine the number is difficult because in those years they made 3 versions (M2, M3, screwmount E39) :

 

1552001 1557000 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 (S+M+M3-chrom+specs) 1958 5000

1562001 1566000 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 (M+M3-chrom.11105) 1958 4000

1594001 1597000 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 (S) 1958 3000

1613001 1615000 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 (S+M-chrom) 1958 2000

1638501 1640500 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 (S+M-chrom) 1958 2000

1690501 1690800 Summaron 3.5 cm 1:3.5 1959 300

 

Anyway... the Summaron 35 3,5 was always made in big numbers, so "rare" items practically don't exist : probably the rarest is the first M3 goggled version with bright black paint on goggle unit... and of course there is also the special "Postkamera" version which is at all different from the standard ones...

Edited June 9, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[luigi bertolotti]

Ok... I have just checked...also my Summaron has the "2" engraved in the same position. Never took notice of it...

[Chubkins]

Ok... I have just checked...also my Summaron has the "2" engraved in the same position. Never took notice of it...

 

Interesting. I could've sworn I've seen images where it isn't present on the M2 version. Maybe some more information will show up at some point.

[luigi bertolotti]

Anyway...  of course this odd engraving has triggered my curiosity... and made a check on my M lenses of that era :... two findings:

 

Summarit 50 1.470.172 (1957) ...

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(note : the engraving of the "2" is less "stylish" than in the Summarons... and there is a small "2" also onto the plate of the focus knob...

 

Elmar 50 3,5 1.184.913 (1954) ...

 

Opinions from experts are welcome.... ; my only idea is about the Summarit : is of course a lens critical to focus... maybe the "2" is a reference to some tolerancing to assemble a lens to have correct focusing  (but this doesn't apply to a 35 3,5); the Elmar... only significant fact is that is a lens of 1954... year of M3 intro... Bayonet Mount was a "new" component for manufacturing dept... who knows ?...

Edited June 9, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[Chubkins]

The plot thickens!

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

this is interesting because "Y" is the impression in the seal of the top screw seal for work done by Leitz when they were on Park Avenue in: new York city. In the USofA.

 

I know they made some mechanical components like filters & lens mounts there at various times.

 

It might be interesting to look at some of the Wollensak lenses mounted by them there to see if any of them also has the letter "Y" engraved on their mount.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited June 9, 2016 by Michael Geschlecht

[luigi bertolotti]

Interesting. I could've sworn I've seen images where it isn't present on the M2 version. Maybe some more information will show up at some point.

Checked a 1565xxx currently on auction (Sweden) : "2" is there... and also onto a 1594xxx on ebay...

Edited June 9, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[luigi bertolotti]

Hello Everybody,

 

this is interesting because "Y" is the impression in the seal of the top screw seal for work done by Leitz when they were on Park Avenue in: new York city. In the USofA.

 

I know they made some mechanical components like filters & lens mounts there at various times.

 

It might be interesting to look at some of the Wollensak lenses mounted by them there to see if any of them also has the letter "Y" engraved on their mount.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Were there Wollensak lenses in M Mount ?  I didn' know...  Anyway, the US connection is intringuing (but... take note that my Elmar with the "Y" is meter-scaled...)

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Chubkins,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Hello Luigi & Chubkins,

 

Please remember that Leitz/Leica are known for their occasional inconsistency. When they were building all of this stuff back then, as opposed to today, they probably didn't have minutiae collectors in mind or at least not as a first order priority.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Luigi,

 

I don't know of any "M" mount Wollensak lenses but I do know they made a number of filters for "M" mount lenses.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[luigi bertolotti]

Hello Chubkins,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Hello Luigi & Chubkins,

 

Please remember that Leitz/Leica are known for their occasional inconsistency. When they were building all of this stuff back then, as opposed to today, they probably didn't have minutiae collectors in mind or at least not as a first order priority.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

True...  ... we collectors do exaggerate in details, time to time...

[Chubkins]

Checked a 1565xxx currently on auction (Sweden) : "2" is there... and also onto a 1594xxx on ebay...

 

Do you have links for those?

[luigi bertolotti]

LP AUKTIONER http://www.lpfoto.se/auk/w.objectlist?inC=LP&inA=20160125_1349

 

... and search for Summaron 35 3,5 on ebay...

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Luigi.

 

Altho you are very capable in your use of  the English language, I would say that your choice of the word "exaggerate" is not the correct word for what is taking place here. I think in the context of our exploring the ins & outs of Leitz/Leicadom a more accurate translation might be:

 

"True.....   .....we collectors do investigate areas of interest that were not necessarily considered to be that interesting by others, time to time....."

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael