Former Canon lover, now Leica newbie

[Buspilot]

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Hello,

 

I'm new to Leica and just unboxed my Leica Q yesterday.  The experience was exquisite:  Boxes within more boxes, like Russian nesting dolls for a camera lover.  I've only shot about 110 pictures so far.  

 

My Background:  I've been a Canon shooter for 12 years.  I started with a digital Rebel in the early days and eventually worked my way up to the pro-sumer models with full-frame sensors and all the goodies.  Like most Canon shooters I invested in L series lens and was never disappointed.  

 

I first became aware of Leica as a digital option about seven years ago while at a car show.  A buddy of mine had one slung around his neck and I had to admire it for a moment because of the timeless rangefinder look, and the weathered leather half case that looked like it had been through a world war, yet was soft and heavy in my hands.  I wanted one.  The Leica brand is synonymous with luxury in my mind.  I'm a car guy.  German cars to be precise.  Have an Audi, BWM, three Mercedes and several Volkswagens--I wanted a German camera too!

 

For me, price was always the barrier to entering the Leica scene.  I admired the brand from a distance, but got scared at the price tags, then I would console myself with the purchase of another $1,500 piece of L glass for my Canon.  Ultimately I found myself $12,000 deep into the Canon EF system and making a platform switch for a person of my means seemed daunting to say the least.

 

I'm taking a trip to Italy this summer and have been planning my photo gear for several months.  My Canon system with all the glass is so heavy and space is an issue because of the rental car I am sharing with my travel companions.  I decided this was the time to make a switch and get into a Leica--all the raw megapixels, full-frame sensor, buttery smooth lens operation and tack-sharp photos.  Ultimately I purchased the Q, and listed my Canon gear for sale on the Canon forums.

 

Now, let me be perfectly honest--at the risk of being kicked off this forum and banned for life.  After two days of shooting a Leica I think I may have made a grave mistake.  The camera is unfamiliar, the controls are thoughtful but foreign to my Canon framework of organizing my workflow, and the battery went dead after one day of shooting >115 frames (how is that even possible?)  

 

I've been reading the Q forums and agree about a need for firmware improvements--but I hesitate to chime in because I am so new to the Leica brand that perhaps I will see the wisdom in the engineering as I continue to shoot the camera.  I remember when Canon was new to me, there was a steep learning curve then too.  I'm patient, but concerned.

 

Other Canon converts feel free to weigh in with your tips and suggestions.  I really want to love my new Leica, but so far, I'm lukewarm on it.  HELP!  Did I make a huge mistake with this purchase?

[@McLeica]

The camera is unfamiliar, the controls are thoughtful but foreign to my Canon framework of organizing my workflow, and the battery went dead after one day of shooting >115 frames (how is that even possible?)  

 

I've been reading the Q forums and agree about a need for firmware improvements--but I hesitate to chime in because I am so new to the Leica brand that perhaps I will see the wisdom in the engineering as I continue to shoot the camera.  

 

Other Canon converts feel free to weigh in with your tips and suggestions.  I really want to love my new Leica, but so far, I'm lukewarm on it.  HELP!  Did I make a huge mistake with this purchase?

 

First off welcome to the forum! I'll try to answer a couple here.

 

The camera is unfamiliar.....not really a negative, just a new way of doing things. In my experience of Canons, Nikons, Sony etc...the Leica interface is far simpler. It may take a while but that's how it is.

 

>115 frames?....I can get usually over 300 shots. Screen factors, continuos shooting, continuos focus and tracking (what's that?), focus assist (what's that?), flash (what's that?) etc... will drain the batteries faster so I'd check your settings. Coming from M film cameras I tend not to chimp and fiddle with the screen and the touchscreen I never use. However, like Canons et al, I'd also always have a backup battery or two.

 

Firmware....Yup, overdue, but Leica has always been a bit slow on this. Workflow issues mainly, not so much image issues.

 

One thing you haven't mentioned yet, how's the image quality? After all, that's why we're all here. 

 

One more thing....I bet your back feels better. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Rapierwitman

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[dadohead]

Okay, I'm a Canon shooter, but unlike you, I didn't get rid of my gear; the Leica is just an addition. (I did, however, sell my 24L; the Summilux just pounds the 24L, and my 24 TSE, and every L lens I have with the exception of the Otus 55; it's that good.) I think if you can do a little head to head between your best Canon lens and body and the Q, you'll feel a whole lot better about your decision. I'd be surprised if you're not blown away.

 

The Good News: as a Canon shooter, you will be accustomed to proper exposure for optimal results. I think Nikon and Sony shooters are a little dismayed with the Q because they can't get all sloppy with their technique and expect good results. So, you've already got the discipline to shoot properly and you won't expect to lift the shadows 5 stops. I have a 5DIII, and the Q just burns the 5D on IQ.

 

The Bad News: Q stands for quirky. It will definitely frustrate you until you can adapt to its way of doing things--it took me over two months! You cannot customize the camera to suit your way of doing things. Get over that right now. There are plenty of conditions in the menu system that will effectively cancel each other out, but you won't understand why it's not doing what you want it to do. I can't tell you what will work for you; you're looking at a lot of trial and error, but I like to shoot Aperture Priorty, Single Focus Spot, FN button set to Metering Method, EVF/LCD set to EVF priority, and Back Button set to AEL. (I especially urge this, because it disables the viewfinder Exposure Simulation, which for me is more confusing than useful.)

 

I've enclosed a graphic that I created early on to understand the different shooting modes. These didn't make sense to me initially (or even now!). I like Aperture Priority because I have Exposure Compensation readily available on the Thumbwheel. You should also know that below a certain point, about 3 EV, the viewfinder Exposure Simulation will no longer accurately reflect any changes you make to Exposure Compensation. You should also know that the Auto ISO limits don't work correctly, and that in Auto ISO the camera will always pick a slower shutter speed (like 1/60th), in spite of what you might select in the Auto ISO. There are other failings pretty well documented throughout this site; search is your friend.

 

Really the camera is dead simple to operate, because so many of the "features" are actually broken or poorly implemented. Once you get used to that, it's kind of liberating. I don't think a firmware update is going to work any magic on the broken/poorly implemented part, and frankly, I've gotten so used to the way it operates now that I worry that a comprehensive FW update would just make me start all over. What Leica should do, however, is completely rewrite the manual and deliver it to users as a PDF. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: that manual is the worst piece of garbage I've seen in over 30 years of creating and using User Manuals; simply inexcusable in a product at this price point.

 

Have at least 3 batteries. The Lumix batteries work just fine. You'll get more shots as the batts get cycled a few times.

 

HTH and good luck.

 

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[Buspilot]

 

One thing you haven't mentioned yet, how's the image quality? After all, that's why we're all here. 

 

One more thing....I bet your back feels better. 

 

 

Rapierwitman,

 

Thank you for the kind words.  Yes, my back is happy and therefore my Chiropractor will be sad!  (both of which make ME happy)

 

The image quality. . . well that is why I am here.  Leica simply impresses me in that area.  Already my Q destroys the best images with my Canon 6D, even those taken with my very sharp 50mm f/1.2 L lens.

 

I appreciate your encouragement and look forward to being a member of this community.

[Buspilot]

Yes, selling the Canon stuff is bittersweet.  I wish I could have afforded to do both.  But, onward and upward!

 

 

The Good News:  you've already got the discipline to shoot properly and you won't expect to lift the shadows 5 stops. 

 

YES!

 

 

I've enclosed a graphic that I created early on to understand the different shooting modes.

 

Thanks for doing this!  As a newbie I will study it and learn.

 

 

 

Have at least 3 batteries. The Lumix batteries work just fine. You'll get more shots as the batts get cycled a few times.

 

Shopping on Amazon right now for those Lumix alternatives!

 

Thanks dadohead 

 

 

 

Leica Exposure Card.jpg

[vcalanog]

Okay, I'm a Canon shooter, but unlike you, I didn't get rid of my gear; the Leica is just an addition. (I did, however, sell my 24L; the Summilux just pounds the 24L, and my 24 TSE, and every L lens I have with the exception of the Otus 55; it's that good.) I think if you can do a little head to head between your best Canon lens and body and the Q, you'll feel a whole lot better about your decision. I'd be surprised if you're not blown away.

 

The Good News: as a Canon shooter, you will be accustomed to proper exposure for optimal results. I think Nikon and Sony shooters are a little dismayed with the Q because they can't get all sloppy with their technique and expect good results. So, you've already got the discipline to shoot properly and you won't expect to lift the shadows 5 stops. I have a 5DIII, and the Q just burns the 5D on IQ.

 

The Bad News: Q stands for quirky. It will definitely frustrate you until you can adapt to its way of doing things--it took me over two months! You cannot customize the camera to suit your way of doing things. Get over that right now. There are plenty of conditions in the menu system that will effectively cancel each other out, but you won't understand why it's not doing what you want it to do. I can't tell you what will work for you; you're looking at a lot of trial and error, but I like to shoot Aperture Priorty, Single Focus Spot, FN button set to Metering Method, EVF/LCD set to EVF priority, and Back Button set to AEL. (I especially urge this, because it disables the viewfinder Exposure Simulation, which for me is more confusing than useful.)

 

I've enclosed a graphic that I created early on to understand the different shooting modes. These didn't make sense to me initially (or even now!). I like Aperture Priority because I have Exposure Compensation readily available on the Thumbwheel. You should also know that below a certain point, about 3 EV, the viewfinder Exposure Simulation will no longer accurately reflect any changes you make to Exposure Compensation. You should also know that the Auto ISO limits don't work correctly, and that in Auto ISO the camera will always pick a slower shutter speed (like 1/60th), in spite of what you might select in the Auto ISO. There are other failings pretty well documented throughout this site; search is your friend.

 

Really the camera is dead simple to operate, because so many of the "features" are actually broken or poorly implemented. Once you get used to that, it's kind of liberating. I don't think a firmware update is going to work any magic on the broken/poorly implemented part, and frankly, I've gotten so used to the way it operates now that I worry that a comprehensive FW update would just make me start all over. What Leica should do, however, is completely rewrite the manual and deliver it to users as a PDF. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: that manual is the worst piece of garbage I've seen in over 30 years of creating and using User Manuals; simply inexcusable in a product at this price point.

 

Have at least 3 batteries. The Lumix batteries work just fine. You'll get more shots as the batts get cycled a few times.

 

HTH and good luck.

 

Leica Exposure Card.jpg

 

Thank you for this detailed, fair post.

 

On my end, I've packed up my Canon 5DMkIII, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8.  I've become a Leica M shooter for several months now, but kept the Canon for situations where I'd be confined 10-15 rows back with my young daughters performing onstage and the like.  

 

The SL + 90-280mm gives me what I need now, for those situations.  

 

I have the Q as well and though I prefer my M's and SL, it is an extremely capable camera and shares plenty of the SL/S's internal guts and functionalities.

[Voxen]

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Moving from a DSLR to a telemetric like system and EVF require that you instantly forget your past experience, otherwise you'll fail. Don't think about what you had before and how to reproduce it on the Q, it doesn't work that way.

 

You need to truly forget your DSLR years and learn how the Q works. It will take a couple of weeks but once you understand this pretty simple camera you'll not want to look back.

 

Be patient and this camera will reward you. I used DSLRs for 25 years but now I'll never trade my Q for any DSLR out there.

 

Hope it helps!

Edited April 7, 2016 by Voxen

[Buspilot]

Moving from a DSLR to a telemetric like system and EVF require that you instantly forget your past experience, otherwise you'll fail. Don't think about what you had before and how to reproduce it on the Q, it doesn't work that way.

 

 

Wonderful advice Voxen.  It's like a second marriage.  You don't try to recreate your first marriage, you forget it and focus on the new spouse!  

[Voxen]

Wonderful advice Voxen.  It's like a second marriage.  You don't try to recreate your first marriage, you forget it and focus on the new spouse!  

 

 

Haha exactly!

[Martin Fagerås]

The only thing about the Q that you have to decide if you can live with is the fixed 28mm lens, the rest you will get used to.

It's a wonderful camera but as others have stated here, with some quirks. 

 

Don't worry about your sold Canon FF gear. I did not touch mine at all for the 6 months i've had the Q, then i sold it all and bought a Leica M240 and a 50 Summilux.

 

Now i'm just happy. I leave for NYC tomorrow evening and the bags are packed. My carry on is now a small normal herschel backpack, it got a camera insert in the bottom that takes up about ⅓ of the interior, and that insert contain both the Q and the M with the 50 Lux and 15 Heliar. and it all weighs about the same as the 5D3 did with the 24-70 f/2.8.

 

For me the Q covers 90% of my everyday photography needs, The M covers my photography projects where i work slower and more deliberate. It's a nice combo. 

The Q for fast moving life, the M for my creative work. 

 

The only danger is that you will probably lust for a M at some point as well

[earleygallery]

The Q is such a different proposition to a FF Canon DSLR I'm not surprised you're having issues and regrets! 

 

Leica are well know for their sometimes flaky firmware and they're not great on updating it either. I use Canon DSLR's myself and find the controls and ergonomics excellent, although Nikon users will disagree. 

 

I'd have advised you to buy the Q but hang onto your Canon gear until you were happy that the new camera meets your needs. Assuming you've sold your Canon, you just have to persevere with it! I think you need to use it for a bit more than just a day before coming to any conclusions. 

 

As for the battery they generally need to be charged/drained for a few cycles to get to optimum efficiency. Also you're probably playing around a lot in between shots now which you won't do once you're familiar with the camera. 

 

Give it a couple of months use then let us know what you think. 

[Buspilot]

 

The only danger is that you will probably lust for a M at some point as well

 

 

 

Hopefully I will have saved up the $$ by that time.  An M and a few lenses to go with it are not in my present-day budget.

[azuled]

I am not a Q shooter (I mostly use an M) but I can somewhat relate to your post.

 

I came from the Canon DSLR world where I was a 5Diii user and also had a selection of L and non-L lenses.

 

Like some above have said, I didn't find myself ready to give up the Canon, it is simply too useful for birds, wildlife, and family events to give up.  I think that when I pick up the Canon I switch modes, my brain moves from composition and focusing to modes and settings.  It takes time, for the first several months that I used an M I found myself confused whenever I went to change aperture and had to move something on the lens (even though I had started shooting with film many years ago and should have been familiar with manual lenses).

 

Give it time, it takes a while to switch how you think, but after a bit the unfamiliar controls are familiar and you find yourself thinking about how the camera will react to your use without confusion.

 

However, you if you are interested in birds or other such pursuits, maybe don't sell all the Canon gear just yet.  I have sold some of mine, but I still have use for some of it for a segment of what I'm interested that Leica just doesn't fit into.

 

I'm not shooting a hawk in flight from a kayak in the rain with an M, but I also don't want to take the 5Diii + 300mm on a trip that doesn't require it.

 

Good luck!

[kikouyou]

I moved from Canon to the M because of image quality and size. After a few years, i can work with the M very fast even with the noct. I do not miss AF a minute. And there is no way back. I have explored most of the Leica glass and the conclusion is that it is not something i can give up to go back to any other brand. I have pushed back on the Q because of the evf. When you use the M, it is very hard to leave the ovf. But what got me into the Q is getting a lighter and more compact mini M that i can have with me most of the time. After using it for a couple of weeks, I think it is amazing. You get an amazing lens/sensor, haptics are really in the Leica spirit of simplicity. It increases creativity with the macro mode, MF is a joy, AF works. You can shoot wide open in the sun at 1/16000. High ISO is better than the M. You can turn on OIS in low light. You can add an ovf to focus on framing in contrasty situations. Plus the inclusion of a pseudo mate (28/35/50) is giving a lot of flexibility. Well done Leica.

[Lucena]

Since I have the Q... my heavy nikon D800 and its heavy primes just go out in very particular situations and for programed shootings with ultra wides, macro or for birdwatch.

[Buspilot]

Since I have the Q... my heavy nikon D800 and its heavy primes just go out in very particular situations and for programed shootings with ultra wides, macro or for birdwatch.

 

 

Yes, for daily-carry I can see why the Q would have appeal over carrying all the heavy Nikon gear.

[Buspilot]

Thanks to all you veteran Leica users.  Your help and encouragement has been wonderful.  After reading your comments I've continued to persevere in my quest to learn the Leica system.  I'm now on day five of owning and shooting my Q.  This is what I have learned so far:

 

1. For the first time in 22 years I am not scared to move my settings off the AF mode into Manual focus.  The Q's manual focus is sure, smooth, and the live-view highlighting gives me a lot of confidence that the camera agrees with my focus choices.  After turning 40 years old, my close-up vision is not so great.  Even with reading glasses I worried that my manual focus days were over.  The Q has eliminated my concerns and suddenly I've enjoyed the manual focus again.  This is just like back in my good-old high school photography class days!
2. I did some studio shots today.  The manual controls were a joy to work with.  The Q worked well with my triggers and Alien Bees set up.  I won't miss the Canon gear as much as I thought in the studio setting.
3. However, in the studio, I was confused why my self-timer settings (I use the self-timer feature while the Q is on a tripod to avoid camera shake from depressing the shutter button) kept resetting.  I thought I could assign the timer at 2 seconds and include that setting in one of my user profiles.  Alas, the Q resets the self-timer feature back to "off" after each shot.  Very frustrating.
4. I shot some pictures of my daughter today at the park.  The colors are crisp, even in bright sun.  I love the Q as a point-and-shoot for quick candids.  I didn't miss the weight of the gripped 6D with a heavy 70-200 L at the park.  In post-production I can crop those wide 28mm shots down without losing the sharp images I've grown accustomed to.  
5. Overall, I continue to be impressed with how sharp this lens is.

 

Here are some examples:

 

Getting ready to market the 6D online:  Shot with Alien Bees lighting and manual focus.  Pretty happy with the outcome!

 

 

 

At the park:  AWB seems spot on, even in the bright sun.  

 

]

Edited April 10, 2016 by Buspilot

[beez]

I'm glad you've decided to persevere... I predict you'll be richly rewarded. As a pro photojournalist, I've mixed Leica Ms with Nikons, usually using them simultaneously, since 1974. Each are great tools for what they do best. I use the Leicas for normal and wide angles (50, 35, 28, 24, 21) and Nikons for telephoto/super telephoto (80-200, 300/2.8, 400/2.8) and super wide angle (14, 10). The Leicas are used for close-in reportage, where small and unobtrusive count, and I shoot 99% available light. The Q is my first non-M Leica, and it retains the simplicity of the film and digital Ms I have, with the conveniences of AF and AE, and a wicked sharp (and fast) Summilux lens to boot, all in a small, light, unobtrusive, and extremely quiet package. With its leaf shutter, the Q is much more quiet than even my film Ms, which are the gold standard for quiet.

 

A few days ago I did a studio portrait shoot where I used the Q with my set of four Prophoto Compact 300ws monolights, using a pocket wizard hanging from my belt, and hooked to the Q with a cord to a Nikon sync terminal adapter in the Q's hot shoe. If you have the camera on a good tripod, you really don't need to use the self-timer - with the leaf shutter, there's no shutter shake problem to solve. I was mixing light from a large widow with the strobes, and shooting at shutter speeds of 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8 sec. with the Q on a sturdy old Husky tripod and used just the shutter release, I saw no shake in any of the picture - all were razor sharp.

 

As for the way the self-timer works, one of the things Leica has always done, is make things simple, and as they moved into pro digital cameras, they've made the way they work mimic the way mechanical cameras work. In this instance, with a mechanical self-timer, you would need to re-set it for each picture, as you do on the Q, which is also the same way they work on the digital Ms. My guess is, if one were shooting with the self timer, and it stayed in that mode, but the user forgot and tried to shoot a picture afterwards not needing the self timer, they'd be very frustrated with the unexpected 2 or 10 second delay. This way, it's at least predicable, although probably annoying until you get used to it.

 

After a while, once you get used to the way the Q works, you'll appreciate its simplicity. Compared to my Nikon DSLRs, (810, 750, 7200), there isn't five ways to accomplish any one task or setting, and honestly, I'd rather have less, than more programmable buttons to worry about. I have my Nikons set up very simply so they behave simply and predictably. Yes, I probably use half the bells and whistles available, but it's the results that count.  

[turbonetics]

Hi, this is my first post here because I just got the Q 1 week ago and also my very first Leica.

Same as u,I had been using Canon systems exclusively for the past 7 years starting from the entry level camera to my very last pcs 1Dx and 5DsR and lenses from 35, 85, 70-200 MK II, 200/2, 300 MK II,500IS MK I and 600 IS MK II...etc

I was shooting birds most of the time for the past few years and decided to have a change to try portraits and street and so I sold off all my Canon gears looking to invest into the SL and some Summilux primes to start my Leica journey.

I posted up in my local forum looking for the SL and it is hard to find one for sale and by chance I got a Q to try it out.

 

The next day I bought it out and shoot mainly my family(Wife and 2 daughters) and some objects.

From the camera I was quite impressed with the photos rendered and hoped for the best on my computer.

Indeed it turned out pretty close to what I see from the camera and I knew I had made the right choice in getting the Q.

 

The thing I particularly like about the Q,not sure about other lenses from Leica, is the colour and bokeh.

The colours are very natural yet pronounced and the bokeh is really really smooth which I hardly recall any Canon L lenses can match. Probably the nearest was the 200mm F2 which gave great creamy bokeh too.

However sharpness on the Q isn't really impressive to me. Yes, it is sharp, but I won't say it is very sharp as many Canon L lenses I owned were on par or sharper.

But sharpness is not the only thing we look for in a photo, it is the whole photo and feel which I find Leica can connect to the viewers more than the Canon.

I also got less than 200 shots before the battery went flat as I was shooting using LV mostly, luckily I have a spare battery.

The Q's menu are actually simpler, just need to get used to where the functions and buttons are.

Use it with confident and it will give u good returns. Good luck

Edited April 14, 2016 by turbonetics

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[Iduna]

First of all, welcome to the forum here!

 

As many others here said before: forget the Canon workflow, Leica is different. The Leica menue and the handlings are simple. Yet, the capacity of the sensor and the lens are sensational. I also shoot with the Canon System 5D MKIII and like it. But these are 2 different worlds. If you want to create  a Leica look with a Canon and vice versa this will not function.

The Q cannot be customized but you can quickly adapt to the different situations if you follow the basic rules. You can  set all your favourite settings of apeture or speed and let the camera on auto ISO. This may make it easier for you to get along with the new wheels. You can customize the FN button with the exposure scale. You will soon find out about how the wheels will work best for you. The focal length of 28 mm is very versatile and the macro funtion is a great enhancement of versatilitiy. The batteries once fully charged after seververal circles of recharmgement will work long enough.

 

You wil learn to explore the potential of this fantastic lens and its contrasty sharpness. The sensor can take many challenges. The best thing is taking time to read the booklet an try out every feature. A firmware update wil keep your images free from noise and should be done immediately.

 

I hope you will enjoy your new camera and I am sure you will find it a relief to have a fine tool which helps you concentrate on photography and not on technical distractions.