Picked up an SL but decided to leave it

[leicapages]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A few weeks ago I had a chance to fondle the new SL at the Leica store in Berlin. Very good assistance from the shop in showing me the camera and its handling. As a long time R user I thought maybe that would be a digital way forward after the R9. After about an hour I decided to leave it.

 

Among the things to like were certainly the speedy and accurate autofocus (testing inside the shop only) and the fact that the viewfinder is showing 100% of the image, and remains bright regardless of ambient light (given that it is an electronic viewfinder).

 

Neutral for me are size and weight of the camera. Ok when compared to the R9, though I find the handgrip slightly awkward.

 

But I was frankly put off by a couple of issues:

- the only available AF lens, the 24-90 is admittedly covering a wide range at decent speed but it is just huge and out of balance with the camera; not to say an ugly looking combination.

- there are no AF primes (waiting for the AF Summilux 50...).

- the idea of using my large stock of R lenses on the SL will have to wait until Leica finally brings out a -hopefully smart- adaptor (the Novoflex works but is a 'dumb' one). The Leica adaptor will  hopefull transmit the lens' data via the ROM contacts on the R lenses, and will allow for auto-aperture and wide open metering. But fact is that it may only be available by the end of this year... not a very smart move to promote a camera as a natural successor to the R if no proper adaptor is available (the double-stacking of M-T and M-R adaptors is of course painful, especially as one gets the small T format).

- the electronic viewfinder seems neat in darker environments but I fear it may be different under bright sunlight (could not test that). Anyway, I prefer a bright optical viewfinder.

- the real deal killer for me was the awkward handling concept of the camera: no clearly marked pre-defined buttons, not intuitive (one has to learn everything). Frankly it is the way the S Typ 007 is going as well. The S Typ 006 was already 'spartan' enough for me, but with the 007 things are getting way too complicated, especially for those not using the systems every day. Why not an aperture ring on the lens and -at the very least- a shutter speed selector on the camera body? Is that so difficult?

 

Others' mileage may, as always, vary. But I left the store slightly underwhelmed and wondering what was so bad with the classic handling concepts of the R9 that they had to throw it all over board. For me, the SL (even when the R adaptor will become available) does not really feel as a digital R.

 

Pascal

 

 

 

 

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

 (the double-stacking of M-T and M-R adaptors is of course painful, especially as one gets the small T format).

 

 

The stacked adapters allow using R lenses for full frame images, and the M to T gives full format with M lenses.  The Leica R to M adapter or adapters such as the Novoflex which have had the 6-bit code added, bring up an extensive table which permits identifying the R lens and getting additional profile corrections.  It remains to be seen if the eventual Leica R to T in one step adapter will do more than that. First we will have to see how much function Leica is able to get into the S to T adapter which is due sooner.

 

scott

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Peter Walker]

A few weeks ago I had a chance to fondle the new SL at the Leica store in Berlin. Very good assistance from the shop in showing me the camera and its handling. As a long time R user I thought maybe that would be a digital way forward after the R9. After about an hour I decided to leave it.

 

Pascal

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

 

But, in the spirit of sharing, on Saturday I went shopping for some new jeans. I really liked a pair of Levi jeans but the cut was not quite right. Maybe I've added a pound or two. So I left the store somewhat disappointed and, frankly, underwhelmed. Why did Levi not anticipate my increase in girth and modify their product to match my needs?

 

And to be really honest, I think that people who chose to buy Levi jeans are probably quite stupid. At least they are not as smart as I am because I had the good sense not to buy them.

 

Does anyone else have any non-buy stories that they'd like to share. We could open up a whole new direction for the Leica forum.

 

Regards

Peter

[pop]

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy. ...

In this case, you can learn something new. Learning something new every day is said to be good for you. 

 

Someone tells of his first impression and of his reason for not buying the product. That may or may not be useful for other people thinking about buying the product. It might call their attention to something they had not thought of before.

[Peter H]

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

.....................

 

What an odd comment.

 

I don't think it would be very helpful if this forum were restricted purely to positive impressions leading to purchases.

 

In fact it would rapidly lose interest and value.

[CheshireCat]

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

 

But, in the spirit of sharing, on Saturday I went shopping for some new jeans. [...]

 

Are these Leica jeans ? Are they available in a Lenny Kravitz stone-washed edition ?

If not, please refrain from posting.

This is the Leica forum.

[earleygallery]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

 

 

Regards

Peter

 

May I point you to this post http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/209327-what-the-leica-forum-is-for/

 

Should help you I think. 

[Peter Walker]

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

 

Regards

Peter

 

 

Poor attempt at humor.  I withdraw my comment.

 

Make note to self: don't try to be funny early on a Monday morning.

 

Regards

Peter

[cpclee]

Launching with just one lens, the lack of a dedicated R adapter, unmarked buttons etc are all legitimate criticisms. And I agree with you the grip could be better coming from the fantastic R9 -- I'm waiting to see what the vertical grip / hands trap will do. But I don't know if I care for AF primes (I want AF zooms and MF M/R primes except maybe very long telephotos). And I quite like the 24-90 apart from the size of the hood.

[cpclee]

I will be disappointed if the R adapter will not have an automatic diaphragm mechanism for focusing at wide open. That adapter is going to quite long and should be able to accommodate this? I'm quite certain however the adapter will read ROM chips.

[steppenw0lf]

Hello Pascal,

I felt almost the same when I first held the SL in hand (by chance when I went to a shop to collect a lens). I was actually really repelled by the 24-90, and I found the Apo M 50 that they added to the SL a bit ridiculous. I also did not particularly like the colours in the EVF, maybe it was a preproduction model.

But later I remembered how dearly I missed my Apo Elmarit 100 and many other lenses that I had not been using since a dozen of years.

I was not keen on AF, I had that already with Nikon and Canon gear.

But I was so keen on using the old "manual focus darlings" that I decided for the SL, despite myself.

And strange enough I do not regret it (ok, I have it only six or seven weeks now).

 

Stephan

 

P.S. you probably know that you do not need to wait for the R adapter. R lenses are used daily with Leica adapter stack, with almost perfect results. I'm quite sure the people in the shop did not point this out correctly, same story for me.

Edited March 7, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[Guest]

I did not realize that this forum was intended for discussions of things we chose not to buy.

 

But, in the spirit of sharing, on Saturday I went shopping for some new jeans. I really liked a pair of Levi jeans but the cut was not quite right. Maybe I've added a pound or two. So I left the store somewhat disappointed and, frankly, underwhelmed. Why did Levi not anticipate my increase in girth and modify their product to match my needs?

 

And to be really honest, I think that people who chose to buy Levi jeans are probably quite stupid. At least they are not as smart as I am because I had the good sense not to buy them.

 

Does anyone else have any non-buy stories that they'd like to share. We could open up a whole new direction for the Leica forum.

 

Regards

Peter

 

I for one thought the comment was very funny. I don't think we should open up a whole new direction for this forum though!

 

I can imagine the disappointment you felt when making your buy/not buy decision. The SL is a great looking camera but not with the 24-90 attached - well not for me. My T lenses look much more at home on the SL. Mine has dirt in the viewfinder and will be replaced - I am disappointed about that. However the camera takes beautiful images and is a breeze to work with when one figures out the way the controls work.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Guest

[leicapages]

But I was so keen on using the old "manual focus darlings" that I decided for the SL, despite myself.

And strange enough I do not regret it (ok, I have it only six or seven weeks now).

 

 

 

Thanks Stephan. How did you get over the awkward operating concept of the SL camera?

[cpclee]

Funny I hated the camera when I first saw the press release.  When I did see the camera in person, I thought it was not bad and was different than I expected but I still didn't think it was a camera for me.  And I had completely no interest in the 24-90 whatsoever.

 

Two more visits to the Leica store later, and I went there thinking I'd buy the M262,  I bought the SL and the 24-90 instead. I've very pleased with the decision and would do it again.

 

To me the SL is the most mature digital system camera Leica has put out and I'm enjoying it like I did when I had my complete R6.2 + R9/DMR setup. And frankly I wouldn't enjoy it as much if I didn't buy the zoom.

 

I actually think the SL is more compelling a proposition to an R user than an M user. The best is not to see it as an R replacement but a totally different camera in execution that just happens to make awesome use of your existing lenses.  Once you're used to the new paradigm of operation, the EVF, etc, it actually feels like a very fresh if not superior alternative to the R. 

 

 

Thanks Stephan. How did you get over the awkward operating concept of the SL camera?

Edited March 7, 2016 by cpclee

[Peter H]

Thanks Stephan. How did you get over the awkward operating concept of the SL camera?

 

 

 

At the risk of incurring another tale of trouser angst from SL users, I must say I sympathise with most of your opening comments.

 

I love your Rollieflex pages, by the way. The loss of F&H and the incredible 6008 system (and even the TLRs) is a photographic tragedy, and had they had the commercial nous to be able to continue developing it into the digital age, it could have given us the most desirable up-scaled medium format complement to the M system I'm capable of imagining.

[thighslapper]

 

- the real deal killer for me was the awkward handling concept of the camera: no clearly marked pre-defined buttons, not intuitive (one has to learn everything). Frankly it is the way the S Typ 007 is going as well. The S Typ 006 was already 'spartan' enough for me, but with the 007 things are getting way too complicated, especially for those not using the systems every day. Why not an aperture ring on the lens and -at the very least- a shutter speed selector on the camera body? Is that so difficult?

 

Others' mileage may, as always, vary. But I left the store slightly underwhelmed and wondering what was so bad with the classic handling concepts of the R9 that they had to throw it all over board. For me, the SL (even when the R adaptor will become available) does not really feel as a digital R.

 

Pascal

 

I find that rather surprising ......... the configurable nature of the controls is actually the main advantage ....... once you have these assigned to your satisfaction you hardly have to access a menu......  and can do everything with the camera to your eye.

 

The SL is an exercise in simplicity ...... and just a further extension of Leica's often stated ethos. 

 

Remembering what half a dozen buttons do is not that difficult, surely. 

[earleygallery]

At the risk of incurring another tale of trouser angst from SL users, I must say I sympathise with most of your opening comments.

 

I love your Rollieflex pages, by the way. The loss of F&H and the incredible 6008 system (and even the TLRs) is a photographic tragedy, and had they had the commercial nous to be able to continue developing it into the digital age, it could have given us the most desirable up-scaled medium format complement to the M system I'm capable of imagining.

 

I've said before, I'd love a square format waist level finder (and LCD basically) camera. Imagine the shape of a Hasselblad CM, LCD where the ground glass is, pop up hood/magnifier. No reversed image so it would be easier to use as well! 

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks Stephan. How did you get over the awkward operating concept of the SL camera?

This is just a personal thing, whether you want the buttons labelled or not, and how intuitive you find the interface. Some early buyers diligently went through the manual page by page. On the basis that Leicas are intended to be simple, I deliberately set out to learn and set up the SL without looking at the manual, going purely on the narrative descriptions of the first reviewers (and I don't mean I kept those descriptions at my elbow, I just remembered their descriptions of its operating principles).

Broadly, I succeeded, making a few non-critical mistakes and reaching a few erroneous conclusions but, for me, the process was intuitive.

YMMV

 

(As an aside, and with the full intention of starting a flame war, I never found Apple's iOS intuitive in any shape or form on the one occasion I thought to change from windows to Macs)

[steppenw0lf]

Hello Pascal,

 

it may sound strange, but I find the concept now easy. (didn't in the shop)

I set the SL up (customized it), that took maybe an hour, maybe two, time is flying if you do something interesting with a clear target.

I used the hints from this forum. ( See maybe also the thread "Classic Leica R lenses on SL")

Since then I am just using it and it is really simple. No need to dive into the menus anymore.

 

Stephan

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[talt03]

I suppose the experience of some users may be compared to the abrupt change from Nokia keypad to touch screen smartphones. Look at the current SLR's and mirrorless cameras, except for a few new models, all will be operated thru dedicated buttons. What Leica provided on this SL is the flexibility to assign functions to buttons and presses. The only customizable button of most DSLR's is the FN button.

 

As most of us have known, each button can have 2 functions (1 for short press and 1 for long press). Once that is set up, there's no looking back and only concentrate on shooting.