Voigtlander 35 Skopar 2.5 vs 35 Nokton 1.4 on M9

[Xavier]

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I am currently considering the purchase of a used M9, as I have been looking for a second system (smaller than my Canon FF DSLR system) for when I want to travel light, and still be able to take some picturs with high quality sensor+optics.

I need to choose a first lens, that I will buy used. In the long term, I will probably want 21,35,75 or 21,35,90 primes. My budget is a bit limited at the moment, and I would like to start with a middle range focal length (to see if I am going to get along with the rangefinder), thus I am considering the following solutions among the lenses that seem available locally:

 - getting a Voigtlander 35 Nokton 1.4 like new, for a very reasonable price;

 - getting a Voigtlander 35 Skoppar 2.5 like new, for an even more reasonable price.

I would also have considered a Zeiss 2.8 Biogon or a Summarit if I could find one locally, but I did not find any so far.

 

I could actually also get a 28 Elmarit with the body, though I do not think I really like the 28mm focal length, this is a bit over-budget (well, I could try to stretch it, but...) and the lens does not look like new at all in the pictures.

 

At the moment, I am really torn between the two 35mm lenses. I have been looking at reviews, but did not find any comparison. Did anyone compare both lenses ? Would you advise one more than the other ? Any comment on the 28 is also welcome of course.

 

As a side note, I searched, and found the thread below, but that one is specific to the M8, and I think the FF sensor changes the equation completely...

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/90634-dilemma-nokton-3514-vs-color-skopar-3525

Edit: added link to the thread about the M8 for clarity (forgot it in my initial post)

Edited March 1, 2016 by Xavier

[TomB_tx]

I haven't used the skopar, but I do like the 1.4 Nokton. I've used a v2 35 Summicron since 1969, and added the Voigtlander after getting my M9. The lens is well made, compact, and handles great on the M9. I also found that my sample was better than my Summicron at f2, and still quite good at 1.4. Stopped down it gets very sharp, but there is some focus shift as it stops down, so the best focus is a bit behind where you want until you learn to compensate. I've had some lovely images from it.

However, I missed focus enough with mine that I got a Biogon f2, and realized how much more snap its images have. But with it I missed the handling of the smaller lens, so I've ended up with a 2.5 Summarit, which is everything I want.

I still use the Nokton on my film Leicas.

Edited March 2, 2016 by TomB_tx

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[Printmaker]

A few years back I lost my 35 Summicron overboard. I replaced it with a 35 CV Skopar. I loved that little lens and used it for about 5 years on a M4 then on a M8. I was going to keep it when I got my M9 but decided to treat myself to another 35 Summicron. There is just something about Leicas and Summicrons that is so satisfying to shoot photos with. Still, the Skopar makes some great images.

 

The CV Skopar is small, sharp and renders colors nicely. It is a wonderful little lens. Highly recommended.

[sblutter]

I agree the 35 Skopar 2.5 is sweet - can't go wrong picking one up.  Love the size & weight, especially for all day out

 

I also have a summi 2.0 35 ASPH (bought with a nice bonus from work) - can't see much difference... they're 35's - IQ not super critical

[Xavier]

Thanks for the answers. It really helps to get feedback from people who used the lens on the right camera (while searching, I found a lot of comments by people who used it on an M8, and it is not really helpful). It seems neither will be a very wrong choice.

Given my future plans, I will try to get the 1.4 and will look at the 2.5 if that fails (not sure the sales work, as the lenses are on some used gear website, and the deal may not go through). Indeed, the idea is that I will probably be able to afford a Summarit some time, and could still keep the 1.4 as a specialised lens at that time...

[uhoh7]

I have them both:

 

Skopar:

L1002137 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

L1002152 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

L1002113 by unoh7, on Flickr

[uhoh7]

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35/1.4:

 

L1016886 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

L1016865 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

L1016991 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

They both rip on the M9 as I hope you can see. I would take the 35/1.4 because it's even sharper than the skopar at f/8 and you want a fast lens with the M9 cause it does not like to go above 800ISO all that much.

 

The Nokton distorts but you can fix that in post if it's bugging you. Real world it does not much.

 

But, all this said, for 600USD you can get the ZM35/2 which is in another league entirely from these lenses. It is killer on the M9.

[duckrider]

Comments 'bout the 2.8/35 Zeiss are not that good on digital, lens seems to be better on film.

So, if Zeiss, I'd recommend the 2/35, a top glass on M9.

Thomas

[Xavier]

Thanks for the pictures, and comments, this is very helpful!

 

The Zeiss 35mm lenses are out mainly because I did not see any available used, and I am a bit on a tight budget when I get the M9. Also the f/2 version is not really small, so I am not too fond of that one. In the long term, I could see two 35mm lenses in my system and one being a Zeiss (e.g., Distagon 1.4) though.

[jaapv]

Comments 'bout the 2.8/35 Zeiss are not that good on digital, lens seems to be better on film.

So, if Zeiss, I'd recommend the 2/35, a top glass on M9.

Thomas

Do you mean the Biogon C? In that case the comments appear to me  not to be based on reality. It is my favorite 35 mm on the Monochrom.

[duckrider]

Do you mean the Biogon C? In that case the comments appear to me  not to be based on reality. It is my favorite 35 mm on the Monochrom.

You are right Jaap, I don't remenber where I got the critical information from, perhaps it was in relation to the Sony fullframe cams.

Have to apologise and correct my posting no.8, others are satified withe the C-Biogon too:

http://joerivanderkloet.com/zeiss-c-biogon-352-8-review/

 

sorry

Thomas

 

 

....but my Biogon 2/35 is a jewel too!

[TorstenSp]

I'm using the Skopar 2.5/35 exclusively on my M6. Really a great lens for the money. Even a little bit heavy and some problems with magenta cast in the highlights, the Voigtländer Nokton 1.2/35 is magic on my ME. Especially when shooting fully open with ND filter.

[TorstenSp]

Leica ME with Nokton 1.2/35

[uhoh7]

If size and cost are a priority, you cannot beat the skopar, both versions are tiny and can often be found for $250USD

 

I replaced these lenses with the ZM35/2 because it is unbeatable for landscape by any M 35, though the ASPH cron is better WO and also pretty nice AND tiny.

 

I don't find the ZM 35/2 so huge, but many rave about the ZM 35/2.8 which has a wonderful character and is much smaller and lighter. 650USD will easily get one.

 

ZM 35/2 WO on M9:

Bicycle by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Here is where it kills the Skopar and all the CVs, and even the cron ASPH (with it's mid-zone dip):

Burn Scar by unoh7, ZM 35/2 F/8

It's so even across the frame. The ZM 35/1.4 is no better, and that one really is big

 

However for M240 I would not get the ZM 35/2 as there is slight color shift which stays in some form with all profiles. Like the 28 cron, it loves M9 best

Edited March 3, 2016 by uhoh7

[Xavier]

Thanks a lot for the comments, and for the pictures.

In the last few days, I made some progress forward (seems I will get an M9 soon) and backward (the lens deals all fell through). However, I may have the chance to get an old Summicron (v4) with the M9 and that would be fantastic. Otherwise, I will have a lens-less M9 which is not very cool, but I am patient and will try harder. 

I will be open to the idea of getting a Zeiss ZM 2.8 too, and also to used Summarits if they get close to the budget.

I know about the Voigtlander 1.2, and I would not be surprised if I ever get one in the long term, as a second 35 lens. The first priority is compact, which is why it is out now, but once I have a small travel 35, I may get one of those as well for low light. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Xavier

[jaapv]

Leica ME with Nokton 1.2/35

I see that you are fighting Cyan skies here. In tropical sun, do use an IR cut filter on the ME and pull down the highlights in postprocessing.

[Archiver]

I've been using the 35/1.4 and 35/1.2 Noktons on my M9 since I bought it, and the 35/1.4 is a great multipurpose lens.  The extra speed over a f2.5 or f2.8 lens is very useful, and while some find the bokeh not as smooth as it could be, I love it.  It has a 'vintage' quality without being glowy or unsharp; in fact, it is very sharp wide open.  The 35/1.4 is small and unobtrusive, and easier to focus quickly than the 35/1.2.  Many of my favourite photos have been taken with the 35/1.4.

 

I've never tried the Skopar, so I cannot comment about it, although the general gear lust does make me want to get one at some stage.

[ozkanakman]

I never used the CV 35 1.4 before, however do have the 35 2.5 Skopar in LTM and would highly recommend it. I believe the M mount version has same optical formula. It is tiny, has great build quality, quick focus tab, is quite sharp (lacks a bit of contrast) and has good color rendering. It works very well with my Leica M-E. I use it as a general walk around lens.  If you do not need the speed and shallow depth of field it is a great first lens and you cannot go wrong with it. I also have a Summilux 35 1.4 asph for more speed, shallow depth of field and different rendering as a complimentary lens. The point is that you may end up having multiple 35 mm lenses based on different needs. Good luck.

[Xavier]

Thanks to everybody who contributed.

 

Here are the news. First, the very nice used Leica M9, I spotted did materialise. Second, I found a Zeiss 35/2.8 C-biogon, and I love this tiny lens. This is exactly what I was looking for in terms of size. And it seems optically excellent so far. It will take me some time to get used to the rangefinder though. Anyway, really loving the M9 so far.

 

A few pictures, with no artistic content, just test shots:

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Xavier

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[Dan Bachmann]

While it is a different lens, I really enjoy the old Voigtalander 35mm f/1.7 Ultron LTM. It's aspherical, but not so different so you can use it with modern and classic looking lenses. I think the contrast is less with it than the Skopar. Having read Reid reviews, it seemed to be the best of what I was looking for which is a personal choice. I know of others that hate it - perhaps there is sample variation. It is larger than both the others (Voigtlander), but smaller than the Zeiss.