Printing BW photos from color negatives?

[yigitaltay]

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Has anyone tried to print on bw photopaper with a color negative? Is it tricky? What are the challenges there?

[gbealnz]

Years ago, and there were plenty of challenges. Main reason being the coloured film base.

I recall using also a specific paper but can't recall it's name, sorry.

Gary

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[TomB_tx]

Normal B&W paper is orthochromatic or sensitive only to certain colors of light, which allows it to be used under safe lights during development and handling. Foe color negatives to print and look normal a panchromatic paper is needed, sensitive to all colors, which means working in total darkness, as with film. Kodak did make a paper for this purpose, discontinued about ten years ago.

I believe Ilford makes a panchromatic paper, but intended for a different purpose - for use with LED enlargers that have 3 colors of LEDs. I don't know if it's spectral response would be suitable, but it might work.

[pico]

The paper was Panalure Select, and as Tom wrote, it has been discontinued.

Total darkness was not necessary, but the safelight level was quite low.

[adan]

Basically, the orange-red base color of color neg film acts like a mild yellow-red "safelight" - it blocks some of the blue and green light that regular B&W paper needs to function. So exposure times go up.

 

Color films are generally grainier for a given ISO than an equivalent-speed B&W film, for the same reason an M9 is noisier at ISO 800 than an M-Monochrom (the color film is exposed through built-in color filters, so needs a higher "base" ISO as far as the silver is concerned - i.e. ISO 200 color film is actually ISO 500-ish, with 1.5 stops of light blocked by the filtering when exposed in-camera).

 

Color negs are generally lower-contrast than B&W (total density range, base to densest highlights) - which requires a higher-contrast paper, which in turn emphasizes the grain.

 

The color of the film base will throw off contrast with "variable-contrast" B&W papers - e.g. Ilford Multigrade - since those use colored light in the blue-green range to change between contrasts.

 

The colors within the image itself will also mess with the tones. Green lettering on a blue background, that would show up distinctly in a color print, may be rendered as "gray-on-gray" and hard to see in a straight B&W print on normal B&W paper. That will also affect localized contrast within a color on VC paper - a bluish subject with blue on blue tones (rendered as yellow-on-yellow in the negative) will have less local contrast and tone separation than an orangish subject with orange-on-orange textures (rendered as blue-on-blue in the negative). It will tend to emphasize skin imperfections (wrinkles, pimples, liver spots - skin usually being a darker or lighter shade of orange/red).

 

A cyan subject (rendered as red in the neg) may come out nearly white, as the surplus of red-plus-base prevents much paper exposure at all.

 

The Panalure paper had a spectral response that bypassed some of these oddities, and had fixed contrast grades (only Grade 2 or Grade 3, I believe) rather than VC emulsions.

 

Ultimately - with a lot of experimentation, you can get usually an adequate full-tone B&W print from a color neg on regular paper. You will still get odd contrasts locally in skin tones, or skies, and may find it very hard/impossible to get exactly the print you want. Like trying to use a saw to hammer nails - not exactly what it was designed for.

[pico]

To add to adan's good information, from time to time I would try to print a color negative on Agfa Brovira graded paper, #5 with modest success, and flash the paper for lower contrast. It was never really satisfactory, probably due to my own (in)competence.

.

[Martin B]

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I recommend a different way to do this. First scan the color photo (or photograph/scan the color negative and adjust the channels afterwards in PS) and create a B&W digital photo from it via digital post processing. Then use a process - I am using it often - called "digital negative". It allows you to create your own negatives from digital files. I print my digital negatives in 4x5" size with a PIXMA-Pro 100 inkjet printer (other printers are fine of course, too) on special transparency film. I am using this digital negative with my enlarger to make great looking B&W prints on silver gelatin paper from digital infrared (or color) files. Great way to combine digital with the analog print process.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Martin B

[EoinC]

I recommend a different way to do this. First scan the color photo (or photograph/scan the color negative and adjust the channels afterwards in PS) and create a B&W digital photo from it via digital post processing. Then use a process - I am using it often - called "digital negative". It allows you to create your own negatives from digital files. I print my digital negatives in 4x5" size with a PIXMA-Pro 100 inkjet printer (other printers are fine of course, too) on special transparency film. I am using this digital negative with my enlarger to make great looking B&W prints on silver gelatin paper from digital infrared (or color) files. Great way to combine digital with the analog print process.

Which transparency film are you using? I'd like to try something similar with platinum palladium printing (here starting with a digital file):

[Martin B]

Which transparency film are you using? I'd like to try something similar with platinum palladium printing (here starting with a digital file):

 

 Pictorico Premium OHP Transparency Film.

[fotohuis]

I still have some Panalure (Kodak) however the last year it rises already in base fog although it is kept in a (film/paper) freezer at -10C.

 

The best option is to use the Rollei Digibase C-41 CN200 pro film without Orange mask on Clear polyester layer. With grade 3-4 you can make pretty good prints on standard MG paper.

 

http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=6

[Hugh 38]

I  have  tried  printing   Kodak  Gold  and   VR100  onto  Ilford  Multigrade  , a  while  ago .I  have a  V35  with  a  colour  head  and  turned up  the   magenta  for  contrast. 

 

I  found it   very  hard  to  get    much  contrast  and  ended  up  with  grey  prints. 

 

Good  advice  above.

[Michael Hiles]

Evidently not the "Next Big Thing". Go home folks, nothing to see here.

 

Expose B&W film, and print onto multigrade paper, as the silver gods intended. Don't make yourself crazy.

[fotohuis]

 

I  found it   very  hard  to  get    much  contrast  and  ended  up  with  grey  prints

 

Due to the strong Orange mask which is used in color printing to get the right colors but in B&W disturbing the printing process. So Rollei Digibase CN200 pro C-41 (available in 135-36, 30,5m/100ft and 120 roll film)  without that Orange mask on Clear polyester layer is a solution apart from the mentioned monochrome B&W films, developed in C-41 and printed on classical B&W photo paper (Ilford XP2 super). XP2 super has also not a real Orange mask, however it is a low contrast film.

Edited April 12, 2016 by fotohuis