Isn't it time for a new 1,4 / 75mm lens.

[Paulus]

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I know some say that Herr Karbe isn't fond of 1,4/75mm lenses. But wouldn't it be nice to see a new lens of this caliber. Nowadays so much 1,4 lenses have been realised.

 

The 75mm would be the ultimate, because a 90mm wouldn't be possible on a viewfinder. Price is no longer an issue, since there are lenses nowadays which kost € 12000,-

 

The 2/75 made in a " better " way.  More light, more ease focussing,, more sharpness, but soft where it must be soft, more dreams....

[pico]

I know some say that Herr Karbe isn't fond of 1,4/75mm lenses. But wouldn't it be nice to see a new lens of this caliber. Nowadays so much 1,4 lenses have been realised.

 

Is Karbe not fond of the 1.4/75mm in particular or Mandler's designs in general?

Edited February 6, 2016 by pico

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[stevesurf]

I'm just curious if many of us have had success with the 75mm focal length wide open at f/1.4.  Looking at the DoF, at ten feet, less than 6 inches of depth would be in focus.

 

I find the 50 Summilux at f/1.4 at ten feet on a full frame to be a little challenging in low light, myself, let alone on an M8.

[james.liam]

Is Karbe not fond of the 1.4/75mm in particular or Mandler's designs in general?

 

.

I recollect an interview with him where a general lack of affection for the latter was gently phrased but a particular bias against for the former, mentioned.

[pico]

I'm just curious if many of us have had success with the 75mm focal length wide open at f/1.4.  Looking at the DoF, at ten feet, less than 6 inches of depth would be in focus.

 

That is correct (5.4"), but there are degrees of out-of-focus that are acceptable with some subjects. I do well enough with the 75mm @f/1.4

[pgk]

I'm just curious if many of us have had success with the 75mm focal length wide open at f/1.4.

 

I can focus mine with a fairly high success rate wide open but ..... it is 'on the edge'. I do have to concentrate, hard.

 

I had a Canon 85/1.2 which proved too hit and miss no matter what I did. Might have been ok magnified on live view but that's too limiting for general use.

 

I'd say that the 75/1.4 is on the limit on rangefinder M cameras so its probably not a lens that Leica wants to repeat, unless it can somehow be made easier to use and I don't see how this can be done.

[gpwhite]

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Because we admire and enjoy using lenses from the Karbe team, I think we sometimes forget how Leica works  = make Euro!

 

I imagine the plans about lens offerings are made in the building nearby where Mr. Karbe sits, but I would be very surprised if those decisions are made at his desk.

 

For instance,  , is it really likely that the lens design team chose to make the SL multi-multi element bazooka zoom?

[IkarusJohn]

Let's see - all wide open, depth of field at 3 metres:

 

360/5.6     dof 0.04m

 

180/2.8     dof  0.09m

 

90/2          dof  0.28m

 

75/1.4       dof  0.29m

75/2          dof  0.41m

 

50/0.95     dof  0.45m

50/1.4       dof  0.66m

 

35/1.4       dof 1.42m

 

28/1.4       dof  2.4m

 

24/1.4       dof  3.8m

 

21/1.4       dof  6.4m

 

and for completeness, 15/2.8, the depth of field is infinite at 3 metres - that lens only comes off infinity at 1.17 metres and closer, and even then, at its closest focusing distance of 300mm, it's depth of field is 240mm. It's a wonder they put a focusing ring on it at all!

 

The M lens with the shallowest depth of field at 3 metres is the APO 90 Summicron, followed by the 75 Summilux, yet the most problematic lens for focussing, I found, was the Karbe designed 75 Summicron, with its short throw. I've never had a problem with the AA 90, the 75 Summilux or the Noct. 

 

An APO or Noct version of the 35 is surely on the cards, along with a new 75 Summilux. However, I would expect expanding the lens line up for the S and SL to have priority for some time yet ...

Edited February 6, 2016 by IkarusJohn

[Paulus]

I don't know if the multi bazooka zoom has something to do with it. It's not made for an M.

 

I was more thinking at the 0,95 Noctilux.

Also a lens " on the edge ". It must be a challenge to make a " perfect" 1,4/ 75? If an artist is ready with one work. The next will be the challenge.

 

If a design is possible and the lens is thought make-able by the factory team, there would be possibilities. 

[pico]

Mr Karbe's place in Leica's history is important to understand. Of course, I am not an authority, but I will comment. His resources to design and make lenses is technologically advantaged compared to Mandlers. Karbe must make his mark in the escalating demands of Leica's history of lens development. He has done so, for better or worse depending upon the users aesthetic. That is an inevitable consequence of change. So be it.

 

Why should he make another 75mm f/1.4 if it is a challenge that could put him down? What could he do to improve it? Greater full-frame resolution wide-open? At what cost? I personally do not like any of his lenses, but that just identifies me, and might have no relevance with younger, less experienced clients who are, or will be, the future of Leica's market.

 

There are enough 75mm Summiluxes out there to satisfy the market. That's another point to Leica's market. When/if 75mm Summiluxes reach the stratospheric prices of Noctilux, then maybe Leica will consider such a lens. I have strong doubts. I am happy, regardless and in fact am buying another one.

Edited February 6, 2016 by pico

[Paulus]

Your first point is a good one IMHO  pico, why should he indeed.

 

And there are maybe enough 1,4/75 lenses yo satisfy the market. On the other hand, when has Leica looked back at this "used" market, when they wanted to make a new lens? I never noticed, that they were in competition  with the used lenses.

 

Last sentence I do not understand. Do you say, you are buying your second 1,4/75 allthough you have one, the elder one, as I recall rightly,  allready?

[pico]

[...] snip good stuff [...[

Last sentence I do not understand. Do you say, you are buying your second 1,4/75 allthough you have one, the elder one, as I recall rightly,  allready?

 

I do have a Version 1 and am very happy with it.

 

I also have bids upon another version 1 75mm Summilux that is low enough to tolerate, but my reason is to get the original lens shade which in my opinion is a POS plastic part which I hope my CNC genius can machine in aluminum - to best Leica. I am so disappointed with Leica's offer.

 

Very Best

Edited February 6, 2016 by pico

[tobey bilek]

Maybe it will be one of the remakes of older lenses that is coming.

 

50 1.0 & 75 1.4 used "Noctilux glass" which is no longer environmentally acceptable.   Is there a work around?  No idea.

 

In any case, it will not have the long slow transitions from sharp plane of focus.  It will be like the 75 APO.

[gpwhite]

I don't know if the multi bazooka zoom has something to do with it. It's not made for an M.

 

I was more thinking at the 0,95 Noctilux.

Also a lens " on the edge ". It must be a challenge to make a " perfect" 1,4/ 75? If an artist is ready with one work. The next will be the challenge.

 

If a design is possible and the lens is thought make-able by the factory team, there would be possibilities. 

 

I was trying to suggest that I do not expect Mr. Karbe makes the decisions about what lenses his team develops. My guess is that the marketing group at Leica decides what niches to attack, and, if Karbe's design for any particular case can meet profit requirements, then the marketing people "green light" it.

 

The SL lens does not strike me as a Leica piece, but it is what was apparently deemed appropriate to launch the new camera.

[duckrider]

.... is no longer environmentally acceptable...

I never ever understood this argument, first heard in connex with the 38mm Hassi-Biogon.

Driving or walking around I never saw trashmountains with Biogons or other poisonable lenses. Who in the world throws bis lenses into the bin?

How many tons oft these poisonable glasstypes were melted a year??

Did the glasslabs let the rests oft melting floß into canalisation?

Hell me to understand that "we do no further exotic glass for enviromental

reason" arguentation.

In the meantime I go out collecting plastic bags, thrown by idots onto pedestrian way.

Thomas

Edited February 7, 2016 by duckrider

[jaapv]

Let's see - all wide open, depth of field at 3 metres:

 

360/5.6     dof 0.04m

 

180/2.8     dof  0.09m

 

90/2          dof  0.28m

 

75/1.4       dof  0.29m

75/2          dof  0.41m

 

50/0.95     dof  0.45m

50/1.4       dof  0.66m

 

35/1.4       dof 1.42m

 

28/1.4       dof  2.4m

 

24/1.4       dof  3.8m

 

21/1.4       dof  6.4m

 

and for completeness, 15/2.8, the depth of field is infinite at 3 metres - that lens only comes off infinity at 1.17 metres and closer, and even then, at its closest focusing distance of 300mm, it's depth of field is 240mm. It's a wonder they put a focusing ring on it at all!

 

The M lens with the shallowest depth of field at 3 metres is the APO 90 Summicron, followed by the 75 Summilux, yet the most problematic lens for focussing, I found, was the Karbe designed 75 Summicron, with its short throw. I've never had a problem with the AA 90, the 75 Summilux or the Noct. 

 

An APO or Noct version of the 35 is surely on the cards, along with a new 75 Summilux. However, I would expect expanding the lens line up for the S and SL to have priority for some time yet ...

 

 

Let's add the lens that most of us are quite able to focus correctly consistently, but that Leica deemed to be beyond focusing wide open on a sensor until convinced by real life results, the Apo-Telyt 135/3.4:   0.10 meters.

 

That rather puts the rest in perspective. A new 75/1.4 is quite feasible.

 

As far as I am aware new lenses are made in a constant dialog between the design team, the production management, the market reasearch people  and finally the top decision makers at Leica.

 

The proposal and design  for the Apo-Summicron 50 was eight years old before the decision to produce the lens was taken, for instance.

 

There are quite a number of potential M lenses in the pipeline at Leica, but it is by no means a given when and if they will be put on the market.

[Guest]

I do have a Version 1 and am very happy with it.

 

I also have bids upon another version 1 75mm Summilux that is low enough to tolerate, but my reason is to get the original lens shade which in my opinion is a POS plastic part which I hope my CNC genius can machine in aluminum - to best Leica. I am so disappointed with Leica's offer.

 

Very Best

 

Perhaps the lens hood made of plastic gives the Summilux 75mm 1. version a more balanced weight distribution as a potentially heavier lens hood made of metal?

What I mostly miss is a snap-in lens cap with diameter 60mm for an easier change without having first to remove the lens hood.

With the original lens cap from Leica this is very notchy.

[jaapv]

There are enough 75mm Summiluxes out there to satisfy the market. That's another point to Leica's market. When/if 75mm Summiluxes reach the stratospheric prices of Noctilux, then maybe Leica will consider such a lens.

How many Summicron 50 lenses were there on the market and at what price when the APO Summicron came out?

I don't think this argument is valid.

[michaelwj]

I thought the exotic glass removal was to stop arsenic and lead and the like escaping into the air during grinding/polishing etc. For employees and the environments sake. While Leica or Zeiss camera divisions might not produce much, that's a tiny part of the lens industry.

I hope that there aren't mountains of nice lenses slowly soaking into the groundwater!

 

Back on topic (sort of), Karbe seems to have his own style which doesn't quite seem to match the 75 lux, but that doesn't mean he couldn't produce his own version, like a lengthened noctilix so to speak.

His lenses aren't my favourite, I find them too clinical. I'm glad he's making them, it would be boring if they all looked the same generation after generation.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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[CheshireCat]

I know some say that Herr Karbe isn't fond of 1,4/75mm lenses. But wouldn't it be nice to see a new lens of this caliber.

 

 

What makes Mandler's 75/1.4 and 50/1 is their unique and amazing rendering character.

New Karbe lenses prioritize performance over character. I like his 75/2 and 50/0.95 and appreciate the technical achievements, but I can't say I love them as the Mandler design.

 

If Karbe goes for a new 75/1.4, it should be an APO design with amazing performance with same size and weight as the previous lens. Karbe ain't afraid of the big bad Otus