What's the difference between the " old " macro 90mm and the new one?

[Paulus]

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Saw this on the website:

 

http://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/de/fotografie/fotografie/kategorie/m-objektive.html

 

I wonder what's the difference between the two:

 

One is called :

Macro-Elmar-M 4,0/90mm (neu)  Nr. 11670

€ 2.980,00

The other:

 

Macro-Elmar 4,0/90mm € 3.520,00 Nr. 11629

 

Is this a new version of the Macro Elmar? Or just one without an adapter?I couldn't be the latter, they have different codes? Or does the code also apply for combinations?

Edited February 6, 2016 by Paulus

[spydrxx]

Maybe it means one is used and the other hasn't been used.

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[microview]

The difference is that L11629 is the older version intended for macro use with a special rangefinder adapter***. L11670 (a newer model) is essentially for macro use with a live view camera and for this you need an adapter between lens and camera. Other changes were to the aperture ring and the possibility of locking the shaft in the collapsed position (which the earlier does not allow). Optically I believe they are equal in quality. You can still get the old model and the kit for fitting to non-live view M cameras. Both may be used as low-mass/small size 90mm FOV lenses – contrast the 90 Summicron APO!

 

***for pic see: http://www.wilkinson.co.uk/leica-m-6bit-macro-set-90mm-f4-angle-finder-m-macro-adapter-11629.html

Edited February 6, 2016 by microview

[Jared]

As Microview stated, the difference is whether the lens is intended for use with liveview cameras or rangefinder cameras.  Optically they are identical.

 

Old Lens with kit:

* When the body is collapsed, the front of the lens is free to rotate

* The macro adapter includes goggles for use with a rangefinder--corrects for parallax so you can see the appropriate field of view at close focus

* The macro adapter is fixed in length

* The lens goes on the macro adapter upside down so that a different distance scale is visible on the lens for close focus

* Works fine with liveview, but the goggles can look a little silly when mounted on, for example, an SL rather than an M

* Includes a right angle prism to allow easy composition with an M camera when shooting at low angles

* Reaches 1:3 magnification (not quite the generally accepted "true" macro value of 1:2)

 

New Lens and new macro adapter:

* When the lens body is collapsed, the front element can lock in place.  This will allow you to set the f/stop more easily with the lens collapsed--I'll explain why that's useful in a second

* No goggles, so nearly impossible to use on an M9, M8, or film M camera

* I believe (but I could be wrong) that the lens mounts right side up and there is no rangefinder coupling or close focus distance scale

* Optically identical to the previous generation lens

* The macro adapter itself, since it is intended for use with liveview for composition and has no rangefinder coupling, works with ANY Leica M lens, though with varying quality results and possibly weird perspective at shorter focal lengths

* The macro adapter telescopes slightly, allowing the 90mm to reach 1:2 magnification, generally considered a "true" macro level, though some purists would say 1:1 is required

* Since there are no goggles, you can leave the macro adapter on the camera body and reach infinity focus with the 90mm by leaving the lens collapsed.  Again, more useful for a liveview camera since I don't think the rangefinder works in this configuration (though I could be wrong and would be happy to be corrected).  This is why it's nice to have the aperture ring lock in the collapsed position.  Then, when you want macro you just extend the lens for closer focus

 

Personally, I would consider the older version the more flexible of the two approaches since it will work using either liveview or the rangefinder.  Only real down side to the older approach is that the goggles will look funny if you are using this setup on an SL or possibly on future generations of M cameras if they eventually adopt an EVF--highly debatable, of course.  In any event, the results should be identical between the two.  Oh, it's also possible they have upgraded the coatings on the newer version of the lens which might make it a little more flare resistant.  This wasn't mentioned in any of the marketing literature when the new macro was released, but Leica sometimes does this in the background without any press release.

 

- Jared

[lct]

Due to the larger aperture ring, the metal clip-on hood cannot be reversed on the later lens.

As far as product numbers are concerned:

- 11629 is the earlier set (lens, macro adapter, angle finder)

- 11633 is the earlier lens, black version

- 11634 is the earlier lens, silver version

- 11670 is the later lens, black version

- 12575 is the metal clip-on hood

- 14409 is the earlier macro adapter

- 14652 is the later macro adapter

FWIW

[Jeff S]

New lens and adapter introduced in 2014... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2014/05/leica-macro-elmar-m-90-mm-f4-and-the-leica-macro-adapter-m/

 

Further reviewed here by Jono....  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2014/07/leica-macro-elmar-m-90/

 

Old vs new discussion here...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237436-macro-elmar-90mm-old-vs-new/

 

And the Wiki.... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/4_Macro-Elmar-M

 

Jeff

Edited February 7, 2016 by Jeff S

[gvaliquette]

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...

 

 Oh, it's also possible they have upgraded the coatings on the newer version of the lens which might make it a little more flare resistant.  This wasn't mentioned in any of the marketing literature when the new macro was released, but Leica sometimes does this in the background without any press release.

 

- Jared

 

And flare it can (this is the original version lens).  For both pictures, the original shade (12575) was used, the second was further shaded by my left hand, placed at arm's length, just outside the 90mm frame lines of my M!  Yes, I did chimp after the shot.

 

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Meteora, Greece

 

Guy

Edited February 7, 2016 by gvaliquette

[jdlaing]

The difference?

 

$3,652.00 for the old kit including the eyes, angle finder, close focus mount, leather cases for all.

 

$3,212.00 for the new one with leather case all by itself.

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by jdlaing

[Jeff S]

Well, the glass-half-full person will feel good that the new version can be purchased without the adapter if desired, while the old version, in recent times, was only sold new in a package with goggles (initially sold separately).....the glass-half-empty person will not like the new price of either the new lens or the new adapter.

 

Jeff

[Schrödinger's cat]

Due to the larger aperture ring, the metal clip-on hood cannot be reversed on the later lens.

 

 

This was an important consideration in my case.

 

I don't have much interest in macro work, but I do like having the 90mm focal length available when traveling.  the 90 Macro is also excellent a longer distances. I try to keep bulk to a bare minimum and this currently means a MATE on the camera and the 90mm in my pocket.

Since the hood is reversible on the older model this is a key point.

[lct]

+1. I won't update my 11633 copy for this very reason.

 

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[Jeff S]

+1. I won't update my 11633 copy for this very reason.

 

LeicaM_9040v1_hood_reversed.jpg

 

I thought you used a small substitute hood (rubber?) instead.  [And I wondered if that alternate hood also fit on the new version.]

 

Jeff

[ralphh]

First post, so hi all!

 

I just ordered the old version of the lens second hand on ebay  and bought the new version of the adapter ring.  Looking at the extensions of both lenses, they seem the same, so I believe the old lens will be compatible with the new adapter.  The only pain will be setting the aperture when focused at infinity with the new adapter.  

 

I paid $1400 so quite a bit less than half price vs the new version from B&H - seemed too good of a bargain to pass up.

 

Will update back here  when I get the lens, and hopefully confirm that there is no need to buy the new version

[lct]

I thought you used a small substitute hood (rubber?) instead. [...]

What a memory!

I did and still do but nothing replaces the 12575 hood for transportation or when i need a better shade.

 

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[Jeff S]

What a memory!

I did and still do but nothing replaces the 12575 hood for transportation or when i need a better shade.

 

DSC01546_crop_after.jpg

 

LeicaM_9228v1_9040mv1_hood_web.jpg

 

Do you find that the lens needs a hood for the most part (excepting extreme front lighting)?   Some seem to go without.  And do you know if the rubber one fits the new version....and what model # it is?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[lct]

I have no experience with the current version sorry.

The rubber hood i'm using is not made for this lens. It is the 12517 for Elmar-C 90/4 which has not the same filter thread as that of M lenses. Better screw it into a filter, as i do, or choose the regular rubber hood (# 11250) of the "thin" Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8.

As for using the lens w/o hood, it is a no no for me as the lens is rather prone to flare where there are light sources outside the frame.

[Jeff S]

Thanks....probably could substitute one of several screw-in metal 39mm hoods (e.g., Heliopan), which can be stacked if needed.  I'm contemplating the new lens for travel....should be easy to test without spending much.

 

Jeff

[lct]

Not sure if those metal hoods are reversible though. For those interested, here's the Heliopan 39mm rubber hood on Elmar 90/4 collapsible and 35/2 v4 to show the size of the hood.

 

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[Jeff S]

Not reversible, but compact for storage as is...  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/160424-REG/Heliopan_703019_39mm_Screw_In_Metal.html

 

Jeff

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[Paulus]

First post, so hi all!

 

I just ordered the old version of the lens second hand on ebay  and bought the new version of the adapter ring.  Looking at the extensions of both lenses, they seem the same, so I believe the old lens will be compatible with the new adapter.  The only pain will be setting the aperture when focused at infinity with the new adapter.  

 

I paid $1400 so quite a bit less than half price vs the new version from B&H - seemed too good of a bargain to pass up.

 

Will update back here  when I get the lens, and hopefully confirm that there is no need to buy the new version

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