Jump to content

Is the M4 under-rated?


pgk

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

An idle question for the most part, but.....

 

I see a lot of questions and queries about M2s and M3s, and later film M's are well represented too, but posts about the M4 seem to be somewhat lacking. For me this is the 'best' film M. Mechanical, no meter, no motor attachment, 4 frame lines (and upgradable to 6); so the last of the 'original' Ms - which was followed by the (still controversial) M5, its revamped and cost conscious cousins (M4-2 and -P and then the M6 with its meter and finally the automatic M7.

 

For me the M4 is the film M, not that I have anything against any of the others (I've owned most - though not an M5 or M7) with controls and features which are 'just right'. 

 

My reason for posting. Well I couldn't resist another one - it will arrive next week :) . I doubt I'll use it that much but as a B&W body to compliment two 'period' lenses for which I have a set of S7 contrast filters, it will do some work.

 

Surprisingly M4s can still be had for relatively little money considering their usability and their quality of build. I wonder how long this will last? 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that M4 is the most attractive M- series looking onto quality feeling: As solid as M3 & M2, four frames and rewind is faster than the older ones.

Perhaps prices did drop a bit, but a mint to near near mint M4 is not to get as bargain - if so, tell me where ;)

Would prefer a black laque one - ha ha !

Followers (M4-2, M4-P) were less "Leica handmade precision", but they are cheaper to get and great user cameras too.

 

Most comfortable M was M5, even if it's a brick, time setting is the easiest on EVERY M beforoe & after!

 

Thomas

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I must admit that M4 is one that trigger me the most.

I could not resist if I came across one.

 

Maybe, M4 was my first Leica decades ago.

 

But after using maybe more than ten x M4 , I saw nothing special about M4 anymore.

Maybe, I have used them more than others, they needed more attentions in repair and CLA than my other Ms.

Each "repair/CLA" took time and some money when I used other "lesser M" (M4-2, M4-P, M6, M5, MDa).

 

I use less M4 now that M-A replaced them as "NEW M4-like".

 

Regards,

 

Arnaud

Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps prices did drop a bit, but a mint to near near mint M4 is not to get as bargain - if so, tell me where ;)

Would prefer a black laque one - ha ha !

 

Black paint/lacquer Ms are set with ridiculous prices, but not selling either. I should think the asking prices would adjust, but they seem to only grow. I can only guess that the sellers are not motivated.

 

I will feel liberated when I sell mine. 

Edited by pico
Link to post
Share on other sites

I had an M4 a few years back but being an early model had the dreaded balsam problem which I fixed with an acrylic resin, later models are the same as current designs for prism jointing. Lovely camera but the only advantage over my current M4-2 was a self timer. Having worked on both cameras I found little to justify the jinx people give to the later camera, on strip down it's difficult to tell one from the other.

 

Best,

 

normclarke.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive always liked the M4. I eventually managed to get a black paint version last year and it's now my only film M. The M4 is often said to be the last true Wetzlar M and the last of the hand built and hand finished Leicas.

 

I have an M4 and an M4-P. I much prefer the M4-P. It always seems that people work on the basis that "if it wasn't made in Germany it can't be a real Leica". I can't agree with that and go further and say that "hand built and hand finished" doesn't always equate to "better". Having said all that, both are great cameras and it does seem that the M4 series are under rated. As usual YMMV.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Michael,

 

An M5 is as much of an "M" camera as any of the "M" cameras before it or since.

 

It carries on with & transmits to future "M"'s most of what an "M" is defined by:

 

Meticulous manufacture & assembly.

A range/viewfinder as good as any (Except the M3). Better in some aspects than some subsequent range/viewfinder versions.

 

The range/viewfinder was improved on by having the current shutter speed visible in the viewfinder.

 

The placement of & function of the majority of controls are the same as the placement on most "M" cameras.

 

The placement of & function of the overlapping, variable speed, shutter speed dial is a marked improvement.

 

The placement of flash shoe & flash plug receptacles in the same spots are an improvement because they are 3 independent circuits.

 

An improved quick loading system.

 

And more.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

A new M4 was my first Leica and owned the longest (43 years). At the time I bought it the Leica Rep. servicing my ship in the Mediterranean gave me a choice between the well established M3 & the newly introduced M4...in spite of strong encouragement by me fellow officers to get the M3, I opted for the "revolutionary" M4...the viewfinder/frames better met my needs and I loved the new rewind knob. Never regretted my decision.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate spydrxx's experience. My move was from the M2 to the M4 in 1971 but all the while I owned Nikon F cameras because I was a news photog who needed it, and Nikon made us such a deal. Gawd, we destroyed 'em in use.

 

I have only one M4 left and it is still butter smooth, but unfortunately also a collector's item, a virgin. Same with one M2. Both are black paint.

 

Dropping back to what I can stand to abuse is an M4-P. There are a couple more. I'm old enough not to miss any of them.

.

All I use today are viewfinder 6x12cm and 6x9cm, and rarely 6x12cm.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also bought my new M4 in 1968 instead of a new M3 at the same price. I've never regretted it, and still enjoy using it. Had its first CLA a few years ago and works like new. It is now one of many M models in my collection, but still a favorite.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As usual my words are picked over by correctors Some day i'll learn to either choose them carefully or not bother posting as there are always some who love to point out the errors of our ways.

What I should have said is that for myself an M film Leica is an M3, M2, M4 inc all variants and an M6. I include ttl's but not M7 because of the auto. Should you wish old school brass and engraving and this original M form factor then the last of the line is an M4.

Note that I have not disrespected any non Wetzlar cameras as I've had and enjoyed a few. The M5 has a place in Leica history as a reminder to not fix what isn't broken and I would suggest that Leica agreed in the end and reverted to the form factor of a real M and continue to do so with their digital offerings.

I apologise in advance if I hurt some M owners feelings but these are my thoughts and views. YMMV,

kind regards j

ps I now await the inevitable comments from twcht

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As usual my words are picked over by correctors Some day i'll learn to either choose them carefully or not bother posting as there are always some who love to point out the errors of our ways.

What I should have said is that for myself an M film Leica is an M3, M2, M4 inc all variants and an M6. I include ttl's but not M7 because of the auto. Should you wish old school brass and engraving and this original M form factor then the last of the line is an M4.

Note that I have not disrespected any non Wetzlar cameras as I've had and enjoyed a few. The M5 has a place in Leica history as a reminder to not fix what isn't broken and I would suggest that Leica agreed in the end and reverted to the form factor of a real M and continue to do so with their digital offerings.

I apologise in advance if I hurt some M owners feelings but these are my thoughts and views. YMMV,

kind regards j

ps I now await the inevitable comments from twcht

 

I wasn't picking over your words but just quoting other comments about the Canadian made Leicas.  I do believe, however, that the M7, M-A and MP do have "old school brass and engraving". I tend to agree with you about the M5. I have one and it is a great camera and a joy to use but it has two main faults.

1. It doesn't feel like a Leica.

2. It is like carrying a house brick round your neck, bigger than some SLRs. But, as Michael says, it has a great deal going for it.

Your apology is not needed, your views are as valid as anyones'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

An idle question for the most part, but.....

 

I see a lot of questions and queries about M2s and M3s, and later film M's are well represented too, but posts about the M4 seem to be somewhat lacking. For me this is the 'best' film M. Mechanical, no meter, no motor attachment, 4 frame lines (and upgradable to 6); so the last of the 'original' Ms - which was followed by the (still controversial) M5, its revamped and cost conscious cousins (M4-2 and -P and then the M6 with its meter and finally the automatic M7.

 

For me the M4 is the film M, not that I have anything against any of the others (I've owned most - though not an M5 or M7) with controls and features which are 'just right'.

 

My reason for posting. Well I couldn't resist another one - it will arrive next week :) . I doubt I'll use it that much but as a B&W body to compliment two 'period' lenses for which I have a set of S7 contrast filters, it will do some work.

 

Surprisingly M4s can still be had for relatively little money considering their usability and their quality of build. I wonder how long this will last?

 

Hi Paul

 

I've often wondered the same. Judging by the I love my Mx threads the M4 one resurfaces the least frequently, it seems. Not that that is really any reliable measures of a camera's popularity, but it's perhaps an indication of the feelings among this forum's membership relatively speaking.

 

Original black paint M4 bodies often sell for considerably less at auctions than black paint M3 or M2, esp in 'original' (ie brassed condition).

 

Br

Philip

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is indeed clear how M3 users always 'share the love' and M4 users not much.

 

I have 2x M4's: one BP in near mint condition (but it is my user) and one chrome to which the original owner had added M3 film advance and timer/frame selection levers. Also have an MP-6....

 

But the M4's are just magic when I pick them up, and both have an even smoother advance than any MP. The uncluttered framelines, the vulcanite - in my view the best ever used - the feel when you depress the shutter, the sound even....The MP is great but can't compete. I will never part with my M4's.

And yet I know these differences are minimal and have not an iota of effect on picture taking.

 

I guess everyone here has their inexplicable attachments to a particular Leica model that defies rational codification....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny you should ask.  M4 was a precision German machine.   When the m4-2 was made,  some of the assembly adjustment points were removed and more precisely made components were introduced.  So were steel transport gears rather than brass and they felt "crunchy" like cheap synchronizers in a manual transmission.  Those gears were later improved.  The metal sync ports were replaced with a single plastic one and they broke.  The balsam glue was replaced somewhere along the line also.  Also the true vulcanized rubber was replaced with  a replaceable plastic one.

 

All the old traditional Leicas felt better to use,  but required more maintenance.   

 

Anyway I am on to digital now and their operation is hardly Leica like.  They are loud, shake more than an M, body is too thick,  electronics are 3 generations old.  But the instant gradification is worth it.  The lenses have improved  and Leica is solving the update film to digital problems slowly.  

 

If you want to use film,  early M or the  latest one are best.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...