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Gossen Digisix. Weighs practically nothing. I use it with my M4. I would find myself insane to go for  an MP where film photography is slow culture anyway so why not use a separate lightmeter instead of investing I don't know how much money in a camera which has the disadvantage of being new and clicky where your M3 has become smooth and silent in all these years

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I understand your dilemma too.

I use an M2 and M3 and have done for years together with a Sekonic 308 but still long for in camera  metering.

 

Most of my stuff is shot indoors with low and variable lighting.

Out on the street its not much of a problem (which is what many people experience relates to)

I can sunny 16 with the best of them but somehow it would be just overall more convenient to have in camera metering .

 

 

 

Michael

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just sell up, buy an m6 and enjoy at a third of mp price. Ive had a couple of mp's and they really are no better than m6 for metered pic taking. 

Sadly mp lust for what the camera looks like and not what it can produce cannot be releived by buying an m6!

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just sell up, buy an m6 and enjoy at a third of mp price. Ive had a couple of mp's and they really are no better than m6 for metered pic taking. 

Sadly mp lust for what the camera looks like and not what it can produce cannot be releived by buying an m6!

:)

+1 for M6

 

MP is not magic.

 

When using side by side M6 and MP, I much prefer M6 which is lighter and M6's film rewind is less "thumb-pain" than MP which I added the rewind lever.

I used to have MP, but each time, I have sold them, after sometime then regret it's brighter VF, then resold after using.

 

Regards,

 

Arnaud

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...  The issue is the feeling that I can't take a photo until I've checked the meter.  I'm getting better at estimating what it will tell me, but for a sudden shot, in a new environment, I just don't bother getting my phone out first, dialling in the right numbers, and then lining up the camera.  I just don't take the shot.

 

My post was partly in jest - I cannot afford an MP - but I did need to vent some frustration.  :(

 

I think that this is the issue.

 

With film, you can do a few things to help yourself.

 

1.) Preset your exposure before you plan to take a picture. I know when folks used to shoot digital they think that light conditions are changing so fast that they'll never keep up but the truth is, it really doesn't. That's just the meter going crazy when you point your camera at different toned objects. So naturally when folks start to shoot film they bring that mindset with them and it couldn't be more different.

I preset my camera every time I go into the house, a restaurant, or outside. It's habit. And then when I'm there, I know that I have a working exposure that's ready at any second.

 

Don't spaz on the meter, just preset and have faith :)

 

 

2.) Know that film is forgiving. As long as you don't underexpose, you are good to go. you can overexpose the living crap out of film and you will get a usable, scannable negative. I'm talking several stops worth of overexposure.

 

Example: you are outside and you aren't quite sure if the conditions are sunny 16 or slightly cloudy f/8. Just open up to f/5.6 or f/4 and shoot away! You won't have a problem. Trust me.

 

 

I think it's a matter of perception and not reality.

 

Give this a try for a week or a roll or two and see if I'm not telling the truth. :)

 

When in doubt...overexpose.

Edited by rpavich
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+1 for what rpavich wrote

 

either that, and/or: get a handheld meter instead of the phone-app. (myself I use a Sekonic l-308s which works brilliantly.. )

 

and: you are already equipped with the M3, which is THE most classic M-Leica..  :)

Don't get me wrong - I love learning my new way with the M3.  I'm not sure the handheld meter would make much difference from the iPhone (which gives surprisingly accurate readings); it is the spontenaity that is lost, whatever separate meter is used.

 

I'm trying this week to take a reading early in the walk, and then estimate from there.  I perhaps shouldn't be doing this at the same time as trying TriX for the first time but, hey, we have to experiment a little.

 

Comments have been great, thanks to all and please keep them coming.  I'm not giving up yet!

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Don't get me wrong - I love learning my new way with the M3.  I'm not sure the handheld meter would make much difference from the iPhone (which gives surprisingly accurate readings); it is the spontenaity that is lost, whatever separate meter is used.

 

I'm trying this week to take a reading early in the walk, and then estimate from there.  I perhaps shouldn't be doing this at the same time as trying TriX for the first time but, hey, we have to experiment a little.

 

Comments have been great, thanks to all and please keep them coming.  I'm not giving up yet!

 

Thats' the point. Even if the camera has a meter built in, if you let it paralyze you, then the spontaneity is lost there also.

 

The whole point is to preset and then forget. You don't have to estimate, you can use your phone meter but after you set it...then forget it (like that chicken rotisserie on TV)

 

If you get a reading (pretend f/8, 1/1000, ISO 400) then unless the sun goes down or a giant cloud moves across the sun....just shoot. If you move to some shade....you can either stop down 3 stops or re-meter. Now you only have 2 exposures to remember...sun, and shade, and they only differ by 3 clicks on the aperture ring.

 

It's really easy and simple. Some folks like to set the ISO on the back of the camera to one stop over exposed so that there is some wiggle room also (example; for Tri-X you set it to 200 instead of 400) Then when you estimate, you won't tend to underexpose and overexposing isn't a disaster at all.

 

Trust me. You can do it. :)

 

Have you seen this comparison of Portra overexposed by 10 STOPS????

 

It's an eye opener.

 

http://www.johnnypatience.com/download/johnny_patience_portra_400_0_to_10.jpg

Edited by rpavich
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  • 3 weeks later...

I think John (nobbylon) is spot on here. The M6 is the common sense choice in your situation (I say this also based on the fact that it was for me when I decided to get rid of my M3). I have a feeling that once you start using an M6 you'll quickly get over the fact that it isn't an MP. The pictures will look the same and it will feel just as good in the hand. 

 

And of course the M6 and the M6TTL exist in various (more or less crazy-looking) versions, including with M3 rewind and film advance, which cost much less than an MP. You can even get black painted ones for less than an MP (which are also rarer, if that is important). As for the red dot you can always get a black one to attach yourself (easy) or paint over the red one or put tape over it.

 

For ultimate ease of use in terms of the meter I'd get the M6TTL though. Personally I find the middle dot very helpful in knowing when the exposure is right.

 

Just a few thoughts

Philip

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just sell up, buy an m6 and enjoy at a third of mp price. Ive had a couple of mp's and they really are no better than m6 for metered pic taking.

Sadly mp lust for what the camera looks like and not what it can produce cannot be releived by buying an m6!

what's the deal of saving money at all cost?

 

A MP costs 2200$ and will sell for 2200$.

A M6 costs 900$ and will sell for 8-900$.

 

Where are the "savings"?

 

Besides, using a MP is much more enjoyable than holding that slippy ZINC M6.

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Nobbylon had a Leicaflex and was pushing it so hard down people's throats.

He had a F5 and it was, of course, the very best Nikon ever.

He owned and sold off a couple of MPs, therefore a M6 is much better.

 

I'm really wondering... If I'd have listened to his recomendations over time, today my kit would consist of a M6, a Leicaflex, a F5 and probably a repaint Leica. Exactly the kit that I'd absolutely hate to own.

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Keep your M3 as the first Leica-M and aphotographic milestone. Buy a MP as a "workohorse.

You have given the answers about your questions in your first posting.

You want to have a built in lightmeter. You want to chose aperture- and time- settings by yourself.

You don´t want a rewind-crank like an M6 has.

So go for a MP!

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Besides, using a MP is much more enjoyable than holding that slippy ZINC M6.

That´s nonsense. You won´t feel any difference, as an MP is just an M6 with aold fashioned rewind knob.

If you want a true mechanical gem take a M2/M3/M4 as the most brass should be under the thin topplate.

In practical use the best M is the one you like most and feel comfortable with.

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That´s nonsense. You won´t feel any difference, as an MP is just an M6 with aold fashioned rewind knob.

If you want a true mechanical gem take a M2/M3/M4 as the most brass should be under the thin topplate.

In practical use the best M is the one you like most and feel comfortable with.

 

I assume he was comparing the very grippy black paint to the not-so-grippy (and slippery) black finish on the M6.

There is a world of difference in grip and handling of the chrome MP and black paint MP for example. The black paint is so grippy and reassuring to hold versus the much slippery chrome finishes.

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That´s nonsense. You won´t feel any difference, as an MP is just an M6 with aold fashioned rewind knob.

If you want a true mechanical gem take a M2/M3/M4 as the most brass should be under the thin topplate.

In practical use the best M is the one you like most and feel comfortable with.

Nonsense? Plese get back to me when you'll have used a BP Leica.

 

Besides, Zinc is such a cheap move. And Chrome, black or silver, is so slippy.

Yes, I am a Leica snob.

Edited by NB23
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I don't like the BP finish. I had two but sold them in favour of silver chrome (an MP3 and an M7). I fully accept that this is just my preference and to some BP is the only finish to aim for. Each to his/her own. I find the reference to cheap Zinc slightly amusing as Leica heralded the Zinc top plate as the answer to the distortion problems experienced with the Brass top plate on some M4-2 and M4-P cameras. Zinc casting worked out less versatile and more expensive than the milled Brass of the MP and M7 so we ended up with the best of all worlds. I see that Leica have now gone over to Aluminium for the top plate their latest digital M model.

Edited by Matlock
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I don't like the BP finish. I had two but sold them in favour of silver chrome (an MP3 and an M7). I fully accept that this is just my preference and to some BP is the only finish to aim for. Each to his/her own. I find the reference to cheap Zinc slightly amusing as Leica heralded the Zinc top plate as the answer to the distortion problems experienced with the Brass top plate on some M4-2 and M4-P cameras. Zinc casting worked out less versatile and more expensive than the milled Brass of the MP and M7 so we ended up with the best of all worlds. I see that Leica have now gone over to Aluminium for the top plate their latest digital M model.

Zinc was a cheap move. Aliminum, cheap as well. Quite dishonourable from Leica. But then again, cameras aren't meant to be owned "forever" anymore.

 

My M8 could be made of an ugly, cheap material (zinc, alu...) and I really wouldn't care. M8? Who cares.

Same for a M9 and all the rest in a few years time.

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I had a BP finish M240 for a year.  Now I have a BC M246 and a Ti (which I think is a variant of silver chrome) M6.  I notice no difference in grip between them.  Along the way I also spent time with a silver chrome MP and M-A.  Again, no difference in grip.  If you want to talk aesthetics, I have very strong preferences when it comes to these finishes.  But in terms of one being more or less secure to hold vs. the rest?  Not at all.

 

The biggest difference I noticed is that the black cameras get warm in the sun faster and retain that heat for a longer time.

 

Back to the OP's dilemma, I would say get a dedicated meter or use your iPhone until you're comfortable eyeballing it.  Film has a lot more latitude than digital.

Edited by Joshua Lowe
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