kentishrev Posted February 1, 2016 Share #1 Posted February 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) My worst fears have come true. I started the year with an M3; my first Rangefinder and my first Leica. I love using it. The ergonomics are perfect, and the encouragement it gives to just go and shoot is wonderful. But, and here is the problem, the lack of light meter is frustrating, and I know it's stoping me take the camera out as much as I could. So, I looked at an M with a meter, and I think I've been spoiled with the M3. I don't want the little winder, I don't want a big red dot on the front. And I want the upright film rewind. It will have to be an MP. How did such a simple and reasonably priced project for the year become another GAS victim! If anyone has a spare MP they don't want anymore.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Hi kentishrev, Take a look here M3 to MP. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted February 1, 2016 Share #2 Posted February 1, 2016 I started the year with an M3; my first Rangefinder and my first Leica. I love using it. The ergonomics are perfect, and the encouragement it gives to just go and shoot is wonderful. But, and here is the problem, the lack of light meter is frustrating, and I know it's stoping me take the camera out as much as I could. So, I looked at an M with a meter, and I think I've been spoiled with the M3. I don't want the little winder, I don't want a big red dot on the front. And I want the upright film rewind. It will have to be an MP. 4 weeks isn't a lot of time to judge a camera (unless you meant the start of last year?). A meterless camera (especially a nice one like the M3) is well worth persevering with IMO. You don't indicate whether you are using an external meter or just estimating with your eyes. If the latter, I suggest trying an inexpensive meter like a Sekonic 308 before splashing for an MP. I like the separation of camera from meter and now wouldn't want it any other way. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 1, 2016 Share #3 Posted February 1, 2016 A much less expensive and ultimately much better solution for you is to buy a new digital light meter, one of the very compact models sounds like it would suit you best. The meter in the MP might be convenient but it's like a fat spotmeter and changes depending on the lens used, so it takes some understanding. A handheld meter that takes reflective and incident readings will allow you to meter more accurately especially in tricky lighting conditions. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentishrev Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share #4 Posted February 1, 2016 4 weeks isn't a lot of time to judge a camera (unless you meant the start of last year?). A meterless camera (especially a nice one like the M3) is well worth persevering with IMO. You don't indicate whether you are using an external meter or just estimating with your eyes. If the latter, I suggest trying an inexpensive meter like a Sekonic 308 before splashing for an MP. I like the separation of camera from meter and now wouldn't want it any other way. No, only 4 weeks. I'm using an external meter (iPhone app) that is giving excellent results. I have no problem with the ability of the meter. The issue is the feeling that I can't take a photo until I've checked the meter. I'm getting better at estimating what it will tell me, but for a sudden shot, in a new environment, I just don't bother getting my phone out first, dialling in the right numbers, and then lining up the camera. I just don't take the shot. My post was partly in jest - I cannot afford an MP - but I did need to vent some frustration. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted February 1, 2016 Share #5 Posted February 1, 2016 Keep your M3 and buy yourself a tiny Voigtlander VCmeter II much cheaper than MP. Look how small it can be in I love M-A thread. You can even choose it in silver or black . Arnaud 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted February 1, 2016 Share #6 Posted February 1, 2016 Hello Kentishev, Welcome to the Forum. There are a number of separate light meters that would do what your phone does with somewhat less complexity than you have indicated your phone requires. Some separate light meters sit on the camera. Some are hand held. Some do incident readings. Some do reflected light readings. Some do flash readings. Some do various combinations of part or all that I have mentioned above. For some reason: Separate light meters are not as fashionable as they once were but, none the less: They are easy to use, do not have to take up much space & can at times be quite useful. Best Regards, Michael 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted February 1, 2016 Share #7 Posted February 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I went from M3 to MP ALC in three months, but wattsy is on point with the 308 because, e.g.; 1) you've got a meter that's portable between cameras, 2) incident readings are harder to "fool", 3) using a handheld meter impresses people (seriously) and 4) The MP *is* pricey, nothing to go into without a clear head and a plan. My M3 still gets equal time, btw. Too much fun not to, s-a 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted February 1, 2016 Share #8 Posted February 1, 2016 The issue is the feeling that I can't take a photo until I've checked the meter. I'm getting better at estimating what it will tell me, but for a sudden shot, in a new environment, I just don't bother getting my phone out first, dialling in the right numbers, and then lining up the camera. I just don't take the shot. What sort of film are you using? If it's colour negative film then you are on your way to feeling the freedom that film affords. There's a very good post on this forum about starting to guesstimate exposure with sunny 16. I know because I wrote it . See if you can find it, and remember, you have a lot of latitude with colour neg film - just try to over expose rather than underexpose which gives muddy results. Once you start relaxing with the technique, you'll become reluctant to have a built in meter with its distracting flashing lights and exposure setting that conflicts with what you think is more likely. Waste a couple of films guessing exposure having read that post I mentioned (I'll see if I can find it). You won't regret the experience. Pete 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted February 1, 2016 Share #9 Posted February 1, 2016 Hello Pete, While what you said in the Post just above is quite true. Non the less: A more correctly exposed negative will provide you with a better print. All else being equal. Of course, what a "more correctly exposed negative" is a whole variety of topics in them selves. Best Regards, Michael 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted February 1, 2016 Share #10 Posted February 1, 2016 Hello Pete, While what you said in the Post just above is quite true. Non the less: A more correctly exposed negative will provide you with a better print. All else being equal. Of course, what a "more correctly exposed negative" is a whole variety of topics in them selves. Best Regards, Michael That's very true, I believe colour shifts can be introduced, and the colours look more pastel but for most of us the results are fine. I found that post I referred to: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189854-how-long-did-it-take-to-guess-exposures/?p=2160630 and I often post this link to help people gain confidence: http://ukfilmlab.com/2014/04/24/film-stock-and-exposure-comparisons-kodak-portra-and-fuji/ Pete 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 1, 2016 Share #11 Posted February 1, 2016 With an MP you still have to meter and 'line the needle up' so maybe you want an Auto M7. But then of course you still need to focus, so maybe look for a CM instead. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentishrev Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share #12 Posted February 1, 2016 With an MP you still have to meter and 'line the needle up' so maybe you want an Auto M7. But then of course you still need to focus, so maybe look for a CM instead. I get the point, but it is really just that meter point that frustrates. I like the freedom of choosing whether it is speed or aperture I'll vary, and Rangefinder focus is fun in itself (and I am really enjoying learing composition with the M3). Leica clearly agreed, hence the meter all the way from M5 to M7 to MP. I'll get there (as in, learn to cope with the M3) - the rest is all such a pleasure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 1, 2016 Share #13 Posted February 1, 2016 Well the latest film M, the MA is meterless….. Anyway, I really do suggest you forget the iPhone app, and get a proper meter. If you're out and about you don't need to meter every shot, take an incident reading and unless the light changes you're good to go. It's actually faster than a built in meter which you'll find the urge to check every time you raise the camera to your eye. It will also improve your photography IMHO as it will make you actually think about the light, rather than just twisting dials to get the 'right' exposure. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted February 1, 2016 Share #14 Posted February 1, 2016 I get the point, but it is really just that meter point that frustrates. I like the freedom of choosing whether it is speed or aperture I'll vary, and Rangefinder focus is fun in itself (and I am really enjoying learing composition with the M3). Leica clearly agreed, hence the meter all the way from M5 to M7 to MP. I'll get there (as in, learn to cope with the M3) - the rest is all such a pleasure. With remorse, Leica offer right now nonmetered Leica M-A for people who want to return to All Manual M (I am one of those people having already some "old Ms"). Arnaud Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charby57 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #15 Posted February 1, 2016 I understand well your dilemma. I have used meterless M4s for years, wishing for meterized M body all along. The M6 has been a blessing and I have used few samples for many years. I sold them in exchange for a M8 and later and a M9 , but I have kept a M4 for occasional use. Guess what happened: I finally missed the meter and purchased a used MP at a fair price for shooting film... which still does happen few time each month. Never found the red diodes too distracting, the M finder keeping your attention with what is in front of the photographer. And even if film has latitude, well, a well exposed negative is in my view better than overexposed or worse underexposed. Also, I am no less concerned with the quality of light when using a M6 or MP. But you gain a lot in spontaneity when something happens, without having to stuck a meter in front of your subjects and shoot afterwards. Of course, an M7 is probably quicker then... But then, the MP is so pretty. Best regards, Pierre 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentishrev Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share #16 Posted February 2, 2016 I understand well your dilemma. I have used meterless M4s for years, wishing for meterized M body all along. The M6 has been a blessing and I have used few samples for many years. I sold them in exchange for a M8 and later and a M9 , but I have kept a M4 for occasional use. Guess what happened: I finally missed the meter and purchased a used MP at a fair price for shooting film... which still does happen few time each month. Never found the red diodes too distracting, the M finder keeping your attention with what is in front of the photographer. And even if film has latitude, well, a well exposed negative is in my view better than overexposed or worse underexposed. Also, I am no less concerned with the quality of light when using a M6 or MP. But you gain a lot in spontaneity when something happens, without having to stuck a meter in front of your subjects and shoot afterwards. Of course, an M7 is probably quicker then... But then, the MP is so pretty. Best regards, Pierre Summed my position perfectly! thank you. Of course, I still cannot afford the MP. Yet..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 3, 2016 Share #17 Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) If the reluctance to having a separate meter is speed of operation it should be pointed out you don't need to meter every shot for 35mm photography. You only need to meter once for the light conditions and meter again when you see them change. It is recognising when the light has gone up or down a stop that is the skill in metering whether the meter is in your camera or in your pocket, not micro managing every shot with a painfully careful reading. You won't achieve individual perfection on a roll of film anyway simply because some images even if perfectly exposed will only be processed to the average that your developer and development time dictates for the whole roll of 36. Steve Edited February 3, 2016 by 250swb 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximilianm3 Posted February 3, 2016 Share #18 Posted February 3, 2016 I have no problems with my M3 and it's original meter that couples to the shutterspeed dial. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostproperty Posted February 3, 2016 Share #19 Posted February 3, 2016 Aesthetically, for me, the M2 and its contemporary incarnation, the M-A are the most beautiful. But the .90 viewfinder is a joy to look through and for that reason I just bought an M3 to compliment my M6 and M8. I've quickly grown to like the freedom of going meterless.There's certainly a learning curve but nothing too daunting! Like others have said: get a handheld (I'm using a second-hand Sekonic L-398A), take a general meter reading and just be mindful of any changes in the light as you are out and about. Enjoy your M3! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentishrev Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted February 3, 2016 I have no problems with my M3 and it's original meter that couples to the shutterspeed dial. I may look to see if I can find one of these. I'll have to carry separate from the ancient leather case! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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