Buying first enlarger- question

[pico]

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That is very interesting. Any further particulars about who and where etc re: currently made versions? 

 

Check out the current versions here.

Edited February 1, 2016 by pico

[M.Hilo]

Thanks M.Hilo- I have started to poke around on Craigslist and found a Valoy I, are there any main differences between the I and the II? Will it still be able to make at 12x16 print? I'm really only looking to be able to print an 8x12 for now.. is there anything specific that I should be looking for for the Valoy I to include or is it a pretty base setup? Is the lack of AN glass that big of a deal?

 

I can't comment about the Valoy I, but have the feeling the Valoy II is the better machine. For sure getting a Valoy II is a perfect way to understand the Leitz system without spending too much. And if in the end you would get a Ic, it is actually very good to have a Valoy II next to it.

 

For both the Ic and the Valoy II, it is no big deal to fabricate something to prevent newton rings.

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[pico]

The Leica enlargers are all so very good that you cannot go wrong.

Choose one and be happy.

.

[tsleica]

Valoy-2 is great! Maybe the best..but..Small prints only..tough to move that easel around on it..but if you don't crop..then it is fine..8x10 and smaller..maybe a little larger..maybe..

1C is Great! For all size prints but is bigger and more complex.

Filter Holders are impossible to find for 1c..just put a small color head on it (easy) for VC printing or color.

I have em all..haven't used them in years..

Get good enlarging lens..Nikon/Rodenstock/Schneider..the apo's are great...

I use the Focotar 2's in 50 & 100 mm...way better flat field design that earlier Focotar models..but in actual usage..you may not notice..

Glenn Evans is expensive..but he has the parts..

I recently bought a Valoy copy stand part from him..turns the Valoy into a nice copy stand..yeah he charged me thru the wazoo...but..it works..and he was the only one that had the part..ready to go..

The 2-c on Ebay looks like it has issues..old so so lenses..compromised bellows..bent parts..but maybe worth it if you want an all in enlarger to 6x9..or for parts..

2-C is a brick..and can go out of alignment under its own weight..

There is no free ride..

I would get the 2-C..but I have a 5x7 Durst..for all the larger formats..

[M.Hilo]

Yes, that Focomat Ic filter holder is very difficult to find. I believe (but could be wrong) it was only made in the US, or Canada. In my 35 Focomat years I never saw it in Europe, not on the Focomats of friends and not in any auction. I got lucky with craigslist about five years ago: just typed in google Focomat Ic filter holder and there it was, being sold separately with some other Leitz stuff. In fact the seller had two of them, so now I have them on the old Ic and the Valoy II. This filter holder is typical Leitz design with that wrinkled black paint. It replaces the red filter, that I never use anyway. It comes with a special (longer) shoulder screw. One can put lose filters in it, or the Ilford filters that sit in a plastic frame. Probably the Kodak filters also fit.

Maybe Leitz Germany never made it because they wanted people to buy the model with the filter tray. Maybe Leitz US was more service oriented to all the owners of the earlier Ic . . . who knows.

 

It is very easy (even for me, a-technical as I am) to modify other brand's filter holders to the Ic and the Valoy II. I attach pictures of a Ic with a Beseler filter holder, and a picture of the Ic with the Leitz made filter holder.

 

It is corrrect the Valoy II is probably the nicest of all of them, simply because it is so basic. I have gone / am going through different stages of modifying the Valoy II to a full grown enlarger. From extending it's arm and giving it a Ic baseboard, to finding a Leitz made connecting piece between Ic column and Valoy II column, to actually having made (these days) that connecting piece by a company that can do such things with metal.

 

To the original poster: sorry I got sidetracked somewhat. On the other hand, perhaps it makes you understand you just need to dive in and get something. Working with these enlargers is different for everybody, there is no one way. There are always small problems to solve and you need to tackle them when they occur. Enlarging is not only a thing of the mind, but also of your hands !

 

Michael

 

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[maine207]

Can you guys help me out with what would be a good price on a Valoy I? It comes with a Leitz Elmar 50mm f 3.5...the person is selling it for an older family member. They are asking 350.00 or best offer...I don't imagine 350 is a great price, so Im going to negotiate that so I don't get taken, but I also want to be fair, so can you guys give me a good idea of where I should aim as far as price?...the unit is in good shape, glass is clean on condenser, the wiring works, though it looks a little wonky so I would probably have it redone to be safe...

[Martin B]

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If all else fails I suppose I could just buy a Beseler, those things are everywhere!

 

Advantage with Beseler is better and cheaper parts availability, and the bigger models like my Beseler 45M can handle up to 4x5" large format negatives. Depends of course if you are okay being limited to B&W without an expensive color head (okay for me). Had no trouble finding online a good 162 mm enlarger lens for the 45M and metal-based negative carriers.

[Michael Hiles]

Can you guys help me out with what would be a good price on a Valoy I? It comes with a Leitz Elmar 50mm f 3.5...the person is selling it for an older family member. They are asking 350.00 or best offer...I don't imagine 350 is a great price, so Im going to negotiate that so I don't get taken, but I also want to be fair, so can you guys give me a good idea of where I should aim as far as price?...the unit is in good shape, glass is clean on condenser, the wiring works, though it looks a little wonky so I would probably have it redone to be safe...

 

Ebay currently has a Valoy (looks like a I, condition looks OK) for $127. (Buy It Now) with a Schneider 50mm lens. There is another recent sale that went for 89 euros (about $100 USD). Your price of $350 seems to me to be on the top end of reasonable if it is in perfect shape. If you can negotiate them down, so much the better. 

[tsleica]

Valoy 2 is the one to get...easier to use..(tilting head)..than V-1...

I paid $50- at the local now defunct camera shop back in the 90's for my Valoy-2..and paid a lot more for my 1st Valoy 2 in the 80's..from a high end private dealer..but it had all the bells and whistles..lots of neg carriers...anti-Newtonian condenser..brass ring to fit on condenser if you didn't want to be dusting everything for every new neg..

OK..

On these old Leica enlargers..make sure you get the Negative carrier..and that the condensor is not damaged..chipped or scratched etc..unless the scratch is out beyound the 35mmm frame..

If any of the other accessories come with it..then even better..

You can start with the Valoy 1...I sure did..and its just fine..but get a deal on it..I would think $50- or so is the ticket..and put a new lens on it..

Oh...1 more thing...make sure the Valoy or Focomat has the extension tube that the lens goes on..DOORX..or the enlarger wont focus..sometimes this is missing..and can be tough to find..cheap that is..

Edited February 2, 2016 by tsleica

[M.Hilo]

Can you guys help me out with what would be a good price on a Valoy I? It comes with a Leitz Elmar 50mm f 3.5...the person is selling it for an older family member. They are asking 350.00 or best offer...I don't imagine 350 is a great price, so Im going to negotiate that so I don't get taken, but I also want to be fair, so can you guys give me a good idea of where I should aim as far as price?...the unit is in good shape, glass is clean on condenser, the wiring works, though it looks a little wonky so I would probably have it redone to be safe...

 

Much too high ! My price would offend the seller for sure.

 

I have been looking into the Valoy I for you. The main difference between the Valoy II is the way you bring the enlarger head up and down. With the Valoy I you need to loosen a bolt and push it up or down, and then close the bolt again, which is situated where the arm is fixed to the column. While you do this you will have to focus by turning the helical. When you want to be very precise (and you always want to be that) you need to look through a grain focuser to get the grain sharp. This is not easy if one hand is operating the helical and the other pushing up or down the arm of the enlarger, with the need to fix tight that bolt as well.

 

The Valoy II (and the Ic too) does that in a much more sophisticated way: To bring the head up or down a substantial distance, you squeeze a lever in the arm which releases the grip on the column and you bring everything up or down with one hand, no bolt to loosen or fix tight. For fine tuning the same movement there's a large knob that you can turn, and you do this in combination with turning the helical, to focus. The way the Valoy II does all this is fantastic. Leitz really designed something there and I am quite sure it is much better than what the Valoy I does.

 

The Valoy II has the tilting head, like the Focomat 1C. I doubt the Valoy I has that. Again, a beautiful design

 

Finally, the later Valoy II enlargers were built 1970 - 1975, I imagine. That could be 15 - 20 years later than the Valoy I . . .

Edited February 2, 2016 by M.Hilo

[maine207]

Thank you for all of the information everyone- it has been very helpful. Thank's for explaining the differences between the enlargers m.hilo-very helpful too.  I wrote to the seller explaining some of the things that I learned here and did my best to make an inoffensive offer, I hope, at 50-100. Even if it is going to be difficult to focus the enlarger as m.hilo pointed out, I figure it can still be a cheap way to get into making my own prints and give me some experience using a Leitz, that is, if my offer is even considered..

 

On another note, Michael Hiles, I just noticed that you are located in Montreal, so am I- it would be great to meet up sometime, maybe you could show me how to make a nice print. I am attending a workshop put on by McGill in a few days about darkroom printing and just picked up some Ansel Adams books too- ha and further down the rabbit hole of darkroom printing I go. 

[Michael Hiles]

Hi Maine207,

 

I would be tickled to meet you and chat. I am afraid that I may not be much of a teacher, but I would love to share my experience. Send me a private message and we can organize something. That would be great..

[maine207]

Awesome- I just tried to message you but is says that you cannot receive any new messages...maybe your inbox is full? If it isn't full and it's just not working, message me your email and I can email you directly.

[tobey bilek]

The focomat 1c colour has a filter drawer between the lamp and the negative carrier. This can be useful for both colour correction filters when printing colour, or for contrast filters when printing on variable contrast B&W. The focomat 1c colour also has (may have) an indicator device on left back of the baseboard that shows the magnification. Could be useful. Neither the drawer nor the magnification indicator are necessary for either B&W or colour. I have a 1c without either. I only do B&W now, but I have done colour and the absence of these two items makes no difference whatever - and having them would also make no practical difference. And having these items makes no difference in printing B&W.

 

You can see the difference in the instruction booklet on the last page - it is available at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17677737/INST_Focomat%201c_1.pdf

 

If by "colour" you mean that the unit has a third party colour head, that is OK (apparently it may be hard to achieve max contrast) - but personally I would much prefer a genuine head for B&W variable contrast (these were not so common), but using filters (either in a filter drawer or under the lens) is not a hardship at all. That is how I operate and I have no intention to change anything.

 

$500 (assuming it is pristine condition), seems reasonable to me. Opinions can vary, but my view is the focomat 1c is the best enlarger EVER for 35mm. Others will tell you that the successor Focomat V35 is best (there are problems obtaining replacement bulbs - not so with the 1c). But you certainly will not go wrong with a good condition 1c. I would buy it. Nothing better.

 

I have both and the prints are indistinguihable almost.   Ic has better shadow separation,  V35 better highlight separation.   You need to develop the film for the specific enlarger contrast as they are about 1/2 grade different and then put the prints side by side.

 

The lens is the issue with Ic.   Three types were made over the years.   The first was only good to 5x7 or marginal 8x10.  The Schneider made a wonderful flat field lens that worked from 3x to 20x and was very good to the corners. Commonly known as the large front element lens.    Then the Focotar II came.  Had a little more contrast, but field curvature.  Sorry I spent the money on mine.

 

The condenser holds the film flat and I got way too many Newton rings.  I need to use the AN filter to stop it and they are hard to find.  I am keeping the 3 I have.

 

Do not buy a black head one because you need the short neck bulb which are not to be found.   Get the grey egg shaped one the take the common long neck bulb.  Vignetting will result with a long bulb in the black round head.

 

V35 is simply wonderful to work with, beautiful lens, auto focus 3x to 16x.,  array of neg carriers,  monochrome and color light boxes,  Find one with the voltage control that bring up the bulbs to full voltage slowly,  around 1 sec/2 sec, or you pop the bulbs you can not find.  So so alternative is is the household voltage reducer.   Problem is bulb never reaches full brightness.  Good news is I used a single bulb for years.  Then I got the good one which was $1000 back in the day.

 

There is a hack for the Phillips 1439 bulb, but I have a dozen put away.

 

There is no other 35 mm enlarger as nice to work with.

[pico]

Even the early Leitz Valoy has remarkable alignment. The lack of a tilting head is no problem. Leitz had a version with an extra-long column, large base-board and an extra cooling bonnet to allow use of a 250V bulb. That is confidence in engineering. I printed many 16x20" images for show with the set-up and it resolved to the edges with sharp grain using an outstanding Rodenstock lens.

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