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Flash performance very disappointing on the SL


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The sensor measures the light reaching it and tells the flash to shut down when it has the amount it wants.

 

In the case of a SL there is a preflash, the SL measures the reflected light (from the object) and tells the flash the guide number to be used for the final (second) flash.

Edited by Alo Ako
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Maybe you have to enable HSS...("Automatic high-speed synchronization is set on the camera (see camera manual). HSS is then also shown in the ash unit display. ")

 

 

I think the manual "means" that the camera "decides" when the flash goes into HSS mode (based on the exposure).  As for the photographer actually turning or enabling HSS, there is no such option in the SL's menu.  The three options within the Flashing Settings menu (on the SL) -

 

•  Auto Slow Sync. (1st curtain or 2nd curtain)

•  Flash Exp. Compensation (amount of FEC)

•  Flash Sync (start or end)

 

Whether the flash has gone into HSS mode is only visible on the flash LCD screen (SF-64).  I do not see any icons in the SL's EVF that indicate whether the flash unit has automatically go onto HSS mode.

 

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Wilson - I have the SF-58 as well, firmware 1.1.  I'm almost partial to this flash because I can "force" HSS because it's set manually by me via the SF-58's mode options.  The SF-64's seems to work a bit less (probably due to its higher GN).  If you have 2.0 on your SF-58, I don't know if there would be a compelling reason to swap the SF-58 for the SF-64.

 

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Gordon - your post gave me idea   I bumped ISO to 6400 and went outside (daylight) that forced a ridiculous shutter speed and thus triggering the SF-64 to go into HSS automatically.  So at least I can prove (to myself) that the camera will go into HSS in A mode.

 

But my results are extremely binary - either like the flash did nothing (very lower power output), or it went full power.  Indoors, things work well.  Time to read the manual again and see if I have something set in the flash that's causing this behavior.

 

I'm only using M lenses, so wondering if that somehow factors into the equation.  For example, with AF lenses the camera knows the focus distance.  Whereas with M lenses, the focus distance is an unknown.  With 75 Lux I might be shooting a test shot with a focus distance ~7-8 feet away.  The SF range will be something like 26-99 feet - there's no way I can change this via TTL mode.

 

The missing link here might be that I'm not using a native SL lens...  

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John, 

 

Occasionally my SF58 1.1 has switched to TTL-HSS mode all by itself on the SL (although never on the M240). I have gone to change the flash manually to TTL-HSS, only to find it has already gone there. There must be a combination of settings on the SL is triggering it because it does not happen the whole time. I am going to have to sit down and go through all the setting combinations (yawn!) to see if I can make it change consistently. 

 

I was the person who broke the news to Leica in the first week that the SL was on general sale, that the flash coupling was broken. I went and had a meeting with Leica UK to demonstrate this. They tried hard to persuade me that this was the way it ought to work but eventually they had to agree that it just did not work properly, except in a certain limited number of configurations, like manual speed settings etc. At least with later firmware on the SL, we have progressed a long way from there. 

 

Wilson

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In the case of a SL there is a preflash, the SL measures the reflected light (from the object) and tells the flash the guide number to be used for the final (second) flash.

 

Hopefully this pre flash can be disabled when using flash with the SL.  Preflash is a deal killer when shooting people.  They see the pre flash and react to that, rendering the actual capture useless for spontaneous expressions. My Canon speedlights measure without using a pre flash, unless I enable it (which I never do).  IF I'm using an optical-trigger for an off camera flash, the pre flash also triggers the optical.  

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With the Auto mode on the SF 64 (and 58 for that matter) and an electronically coupled lens, aperture information is passed from the camera to the flash for the light sensor in the flash. So if you change the aperture on the camera the flash gets that information and changes the value on the flash as well. M lenses can't pass on this information so you need to set the aperture on the flash manually. In addition the lens needs to be 6 bit coded if the focal length information is passed through to zoom the flash head.

 

No way to upgrade the SF58. I have a V1 and V2. Don't notice much difference. The SF64 is defifitely better than either though.

 

Gordon

 

 

I have luckily acquired the SF 64 recently and testing the unit on the SL with my manual lenses. There isn't a way that I can see on the SF 64 where one can adjust the aperture. The SL seems much better at guesstimating the aperture from the M lenses and transferring tat info to the flash. When the flash is set to "A" there is no pre flash and the results of exposures are quite good; camera set to A.

 

I tested the unit on a friends SL using S Lenses yesterday. When the camera is set to P  and the flash on A or TTL the results were very good indeed. Balanced light and exposures every time.

 

Still testing with my M lenses and hoping I can avoid the pre flash for people shots and fine tune that method.

 

Ken 

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I have luckily acquired the SF 64 recently and testing the unit on the SL with my manual lenses. There isn't a way that I can see on the SF 64 where one can adjust the aperture. The SL seems much better at guesstimating the aperture from the M lenses and transferring tat info to the flash. When the flash is set to "A" there is no pre flash and the results of exposures are quite good; camera set to A.

 

I tested the unit on a friends SL using S Lenses yesterday. When the camera is set to P  and the flash on A or TTL the results were very good indeed. Balanced light and exposures every time.

 

Still testing with my M lenses and hoping I can avoid the pre flash for people shots and fine tune that method.

 

Ken 

 

I checked and you are correct. Don't know why I thought that......

 

Gordon

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I checked and you are correct. Don't know why I thought that......

 

Gordon

In the old days with the trusty Metz, one could set aperture on the flash and then similarly on camera for good results.

 

The SF 64 is showing very good results even in flash M mode when one determines the power output according to distance to subject. I'm impressed with the unit but saying that I have never used canon or Nikon speedlites.

 

Happy with my purchase and lucky to get one. According to Leica Australia, 3 to 4 months wait for a unit to arrive here.

K

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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In the old days with the trusty Metz, one could set aperture on the flash and then similarly on camera for good results.

 

The SF 64 is showing very good results even in flash M mode when one determines the power output according to distance to subject. I'm impressed with the unit but saying that I have never used canon or Nikon speedlites.

 

Happy with my purchase and lucky to get one. According to Leica Australia, 3 to 4 months wait for a unit to arrive here.

K

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

How about Digidirect?

 

B&H lists them as in stock. 4 months seems a long wait.

 

Gordon

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How about Digidirect?

 

B&H lists them as in stock. 4 months seems a long wait.

 

Gordon

 

B&H add on duty fees and charges making the Flash almost $1500 AU$. I am glad ti get one at the regular price of $1050 AU. Digidirect wanted me to pay and order one so that they could source a unit. However seeing as though the flash supply is limited and Leica stopped producing them for a while, nobody has the unit in Australia in stock. My Leica store happened to get one unit delivered which was ordered nine months ago.  

Edited by Kendoo
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  • 1 month later...

I used the SF 64 on the SL today at a wedding. I have tested the flash on a couple of occasions however not seriously. I was very happy with the way it performed with M lenses in either in M or A Modes. I used M mode when shooting into the sun trying to get the river view behind the bride and groom. The TTL and HSS worked a real treat. Mind you I wasn't trusting enough shooting into dark faces and needed to check the lcd after every shot. Flash compensation needs constant watching and one can't just leave and forget on manual lenses. If I was going to do this kind of flash work a lot, then I would probably buy an SL lens because it would cut the work down a bit. I am very happy with the flash and would consider using it off camera now with a Nikon cable for some things. 

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I used the SF 64 on the SL today at a wedding. I have tested the flash on a couple of occasions however not seriously. I was very happy with the way it performed with M lenses in either in M or A Modes. I used M mode when shooting into the sun trying to get the river view behind the bride and groom. The TTL and HSS worked a real treat. Mind you I wasn't trusting enough shooting into dark faces and needed to check the lcd after every shot. Flash compensation needs constant watching and one can't just leave and forget on manual lenses. If I was going to do this kind of flash work a lot, then I would probably buy an SL lens because it would cut the work down a bit. I am very happy with the flash and would consider using it off camera now with a Nikon cable for some things. 

 

Can you remind me, do you alter the flash EV on the 64 by altering the camera EV on the top adjuster knob, like you would alter camera EV when not using a flash? Alternatively do you have to delve into the camera menu of flash settings to adjust flash power? If it is the first alternative, that could tempt me to upgrade my SF-58D Mk.1 to the SF-64. Having to use the settings menu on the flash LCD and menu buttons on the SF58 to alter flash power in TTL, is rather slow and clunky, needing multiple button presses. 

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw
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The camera changes the settings on the flash okay, just allocate flash exposure control to a button like you do for iso etc. You can change on the flash touch screen too but that takes more time. Holding shutter release on camera will garantee change on flash when you change function or any other settings.

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O

 

Can you remind me, do you alter the flash EV on the 64 by altering the camera EV on the top adjuster knob, like you would alter camera EV when not using a flash? Alternatively do you have to delve into the camera menu of flash settings to adjust flash power? If it is the first alternative, that could tempt me to upgrade my SF-58D Mk.1 to the SF-64. Having to use the settings menu on the flash LCD and menu buttons on the SF58 to alter flash power in TTL, is rather slow and clunky, needing multiple button presses. 

 

Wilson

 

On the SL FEC can be changed by either the camera OR the flash. Both work and the change is communicated properly( change on camera, see it on flash and vice versa). On the camera it isn't through the top dial. That's still normal exposure compensation. It's a menu item but you can map it to a long press button. I have mine set to the lower right which means I can use FEC without lowering the camera from my eye.

 

So basically (for the SL)...

 

SF26....................set on camera.

SF58....................set on flash

SF40....................set on flash

SF64.....................set on either camera or flash

 

 

Gordon

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I used the SF 64 on the SL today at a wedding. I have tested the flash on a couple of occasions however not seriously. I was very happy with the way it performed with M lenses in either in M or A Modes. I used M mode when shooting into the sun trying to get the river view behind the bride and groom. The TTL and HSS worked a real treat. Mind you I wasn't trusting enough shooting into dark faces and needed to check the lcd after every shot. Flash compensation needs constant watching and one can't just leave and forget on manual lenses. If I was going to do this kind of flash work a lot, then I would probably buy an SL lens because it would cut the work down a bit. I am very happy with the flash and would consider using it off camera now with a Nikon cable for some things. 

 

I agree with you. I'm happy with the SL and SF64 at weddings, although the SL had a tiny bit more lag than Sony or Fuji cameras when using TTL flash. I still HATE the way that exposure preview is disabled in Manual mode (camera)  when using TTL flash. Such a stupid design decision.

 

Gordon

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can just turn off the back screen to conserve power and 'preview' through the finder. I'm horribly tempted by an SF64, to use in the same circumstances as Gordon, but 500 sovs for a little on camera flash! God help us. It's barely less than an Elinchrom basic studio setup (okay, I exaggerate).  For the moment I'm struggling on with a Nissin 700i Nikon on manual. Guess the height to the ceiling, double it, take a stop or two out...  As for the contre jour stuff... didn't it used to be called synchro sunlight?

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I'm talking about the exposure *simulation* you get in the EVF or LCD. That's automatically disabled with TTL flash if the camera is in manual mode. It should be a user choice but Leica think they know about what I need more than I do. They don't....

 

Also, it's unlikely the LCD uses less power than the finder. I have auto image review off because I don't need the last shot popping up when I don't need it.

 

Although the SF64 is expensive (double the Metz branded model for other systems) I still wouldn't go back to an SF58 on my SL.

 

Gordon

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