jim0266 Posted January 26, 2016 Share #1 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for indulging me with a little therapeutic ranting and any advice or stories you care to share. I currently own a 50/1.4 pre-ASPH and last version of the Elmar 50/2.8. Now I'm shooting a digital M the focus shift is driving me a little crazy with the Lux. I made the mistake of renting a 50 Lux ASPH from Lensrentals. The lens bested my Lux by a good margin and convinced me I wanted one. I like the idea of a fast 50 complimented by a small, light 50 like the Elmar depending on the situation. After looking at several options I went for a used mint version produced before Leica started bit coding the lenses, meaning it was pre-2006 lens. The focus was sticky and the lens exhibited focus shifting. I sent it back. Contacted another dealer and had them send me two lenses, a new and used version. The used was in the 406XXXX range, mint, and 6-bit coded. The used lens exhibited focus shifting so I immediately discounted that lens and stopped testing it. The new lens was perfect at 1.4 at close distances. I thought I had found The One. When I tested the new lens on a subject about 30 feet away at 5.6 and compared this scene from the photo made with the Lensrentals copy, it was apparent the new lens was smearing pretty badly in the top right (See link below for the image comparison). I've sent both of these lenses back. I contacted a well-known Leica writer/reviewer (NOT Puts or, shudder, Rockwell) on this issue. His 50 Lux ASPH story: "I started with the best sample (unknown to me, thought they were all like that) sold it to a friend traveling through and thinking I could pick up another. Six copies later, no dice. The last one I had was okay, but nowhere near as good as the first one. That's Leica's much-vaunted hand assembly QC for you :)" Had I not seen what the seemingly perfect 50/1.4 ASPH Lensrentals sent was capable of producing, I might have been satisfied with the new Leica lens and not noticed the problem at mid distances. I have one more lens I might try from another dealer. I've also thought of getting the used one from the first dealer and see if DAG can make it perfect. Failing that I might learn to live with my 50 or just go with a Cron or Planar 50 and call it a day. Leicas, god love them, will drive you mad if you've used them long enough. 100% crops of good Lensrental copy and bad new lens Full image of above crops Edited January 26, 2016 by jim0266 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Hi jim0266, Take a look here Cannot find a good copy of the 50mm 1.4 ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rick Posted January 26, 2016 Share #2 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Bought mine new in 2007. I actually bought 2 from PopFlash and compared them and could not tell the difference. They both were fine. My challenges have not been with the optics. It has been a wonderful lens in that respect. But, I've had it back to Leica for loose mount, twice. The last time it came back with stiff focus. Not to bad, but I'll send it back just before the one year warrantee runs out and have the tight focus fixed. Rick By the way, I'm not sure I see what you are talking about in those pictures. They don't seem like something I can compare one to the other. Maybe, you could point out what you are looking at. Edited January 26, 2016 by Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim0266 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted January 26, 2016 Rick, that's less than confidence inspiring... DAG starts sounding better and better... Look at the house numbers, the wire clamp to the left of the numbers, the shutters and window on the garage and the fire hydrant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted January 26, 2016 Share #4 Posted January 26, 2016 Thanks for indulging me with a little therapeutic ranting and any advice or stories you care to share. I currently own a 50/1.4 pre-ASPH and last version of the Elmar 50/2.8. Now I'm shooting a digital M the focus shift is driving me a little crazy with the Lux. I made the mistake of renting a 50 Lux ASPH from Lensrentals. The lens bested my Lux by a good margin and convinced me I wanted one. I like the idea of a fast 50 complimented by a small, light 50 like the Elmar depending on the situation. After looking at several options I went for a used mint version produced before Leica started bit coding the lenses, meaning it was pre-2006 lens. The focus was sticky and the lens exhibited focus shifting. I sent it back. Contacted another dealer and had them send me two lenses, a new and used version. The used was in the 406XXXX range, mint, and 6-bit coded. The used lens exhibited focus shifting so I immediately discounted that lens and stopped testing it. Lensrentals.com is a registered Leica dealer, actually. I'm about 99% sure that they would be willing to sell you that particular lens if you contact them directly, they track rentals by serial number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 26, 2016 Share #5 Posted January 26, 2016 The problem with this lens is the extremely narrow mechanical tolerance of the floating element. I have an impression that the brass barrels have fewer problems in that respect. Having said that, mine - silver bought new- spent a few months in Solms to correct a misfocus at short distances. Since then it has been perfect. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 26, 2016 Share #6 Posted January 26, 2016 I bought a used one (not coded) from a well-known Manchester dealer. Its been absolutely fine. No problems whatsoever. I'd suggest that if you are having trouble finding one that meets your requirements then buy the best you can and get it sorted out by Leica or a good repairer. I bought a 75mm Summilux which was so far off that it simply would not focus. After the dealer sent it on a visit to Leica as part of the purchase price it is working perfectly - perhaps focus is marginally stiff for some but it's not a problem for me and I suspect that it will loosen a little eventually anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 26, 2016 Share #7 Posted January 26, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) From what I understand this lens cannot be sorted by a repairer - the problem is usually in the precision of the movement and/or centering of the floating element and that can only be corrected by Leica. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 26, 2016 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2016 From what I understand this lens cannot be sorted by a repairer - the problem is usually in the precision of the movement and/or centering of the floating element and that can only be corrected by Leica. That too is my understanding - that the FLEs go back to Germany. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 26, 2016 Share #9 Posted January 26, 2016 From what I understand this lens cannot be sorted by a repairer - the problem is usually in the precision of the movement and/or centering of the floating element and that can only be corrected by Leica. Makes sense, although I'd say that there are some very competent people out there working on gear - if special tools are required though such adjustments might be beyond their capabilities I suppose. My point was that Leica do do a fabulous job on lenses (such as my 75mm Summilux). To add, My first 75mm Summicron was out of tolerance and would not focus accurately, whereas my second is as accurate as I could possibly want it to be. One thing that I would add is that purely mechanical lenses seem to be very robust and we all too often forget that they can be much older than we think of them as being. Life's bumps and knocks might not show (I'm amazed at how immaculate some M lenses still are after several decades) but can push them out of tolerance and an occasional service isn't such a bad idea. When I get around to 6-bit coding a couple of my lenses I'll probably get them checked and serviced too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 26, 2016 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2016 Glad I read this - I've been thinking about a 50mm f1.4 ASPH, but reading about focus shift is disconcerting. I'm led to understand the pre ASPH is no better or possibly worse, since the purpose of the aspherical element is supposed to minimise the optical phenomenon (as I understadd it). Certainly haven't got the appetite or patience to try umpteen 50/f1.4 to end up with a good one, or buy a mediocre version and have to send it back to Germany for cal. What alternative choices are there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 26, 2016 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2016 Glad I read this - I've been thinking about a 50mm f1.4 ASPH, but reading about focus shift is disconcerting. I'm led to understand the pre ASPH is no better or possibly worse, since the purpose of the aspherical element is supposed to minimise the optical phenomenon (as I understadd it). Ummmm. No. The aspherical design improves wide open/full aperture performance. The Floating Element assembly is designed to improve close up performance, but if out of adjustment tolerance will obviously cause focus problems instead. Mine has been fine and in all honesty its easy enough to check - just shoot infinity and close focus shots wide open and you'll soon find out (or ask any decent dealer to check if you can't examine the lens yourself and ensure that you have a no quibble money back within a time limit - some dealers will offer this on used equipment). The pre-aspheric is not an FLE design so doesn't have the problem but performance wide open is not as good - stopped down though its fine. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 26, 2016 Share #12 Posted January 26, 2016 Thought 'focus shift' was a phenomenon of focus shifting with aperture, eg spot on at f1.4 but shifting to become out of focus when stopped down. Are we talking about the same phenomenon? Checking a lens at min and max focusing distance for a fixed aperture sounds like some form of optical calibration error, not to do with the lens design per se. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 26, 2016 Share #13 Posted January 26, 2016 Thought 'focus shift' was a phenomenon of focus shifting with aperture, eg spot on at f1.4 but shifting to become out of focus when stopped down. Are we talking about the same phenomenon? Checking a lens at min and max focusing distance for a fixed aperture sounds like some form of optical calibration error, not to do with the lens design per se. Yes focus shift can be attributed to aperture (I'm not sure that its actually a definitive description of just this though) and I don't recall the 50mm pre-aspheric or aspheric Summilux suffering from this (mine didn't/haven't). Checking a lens (the FLE version) wide open at infinity and close up will indicate whether or not the focus is calibrated correctly (i.e. is infinity correct and is close up correct) and/or whether the FLE driving mechanism is out of tolerance (is close focus alone out), etc.. Not to do with lens design at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 26, 2016 Share #14 Posted January 26, 2016 RF cameras by their nature require great precision in build & design. Digital makes it worse. The more complicated the design, the more room for error in manufacture. I do recall a post where it was said his ASPH went to Leica a time or two and was never right. He gave up and sent it to DAG who just took out the new grease and put in the old and the lens works perfectly. When you are looking at used lenses and rentals they are not necessarily well taken care of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim0266 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted January 26, 2016 Lensrentals.com is a registered Leica dealer, actually. I'm about 99% sure that they would be willing to sell you that particular lens if you contact them directly, they track rentals by serial number. Thanks, Jeff. That had crossed my mind. LR pricing is not that good unfortunately. Their low-end pricing for a used copy is $2,972 and PopFlash is selling this lens with a full PP for $3,157 ($3097 in chrome). I'd rather buy a new lens at that price and harass Leica until they get it right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 26, 2016 Share #16 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) I do recall a post where it was said his ASPH went to Leica a time or two and was never right. He gave up and sent it to DAG who just took out the new grease and put in the old and the lens works perfectly. That was my thread.... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208538-dag-does-what-leica-could-not/ I had no problems with focus shift or other focus errors, but I did have a 'sticky' focus action. Short story....Leica NJ couldn't fix it (the technician personally told me so)....but DAG did, cheaply and easily. Leica changed the grease as well, but they apparently no longer use the good stuff that DAG keeps in supply. DAG doesn't have much good to say about Leica build or repair quality these days (nor does Sherry Krauter). Jeff Edited January 26, 2016 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 26, 2016 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) That too is my understanding - that the FLEs go back to Germany. That was my experience with my 50 Summilux M ASPH. But after I got it back perfect, I managed to drop it and my M some months later. Camera Clinic confirmed the need for the trip back to Germany and Customer Care explained that they essentially needed to rebuild it due to the focus mechanism mis-alignment. It came back perfect again. My other floating element design lens was a very early production Summilux M 35 ASPH (the current one). It proved to have a significant focus error at minimum distance wide open. I hadn't even noticed as I wasn't using it that way. Camera Clinic did calibrate that one here in Australia. They did a perfect job and under warranty. So I think that the mechanism is different in the different floating element designs? If you need/want that f/1.4 then I agree with the suggestions to just buy one at the price you are willing to pay and get it serviced in Germany if needed. Edited January 26, 2016 by hoppyman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 26, 2016 Share #18 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) What sort of cost for a Leica service in Germany - I'm assuming a 2nd hand lens? It could make buying new a better option when comparing the costs of a 2nd hand purchase together with a service in Germany. Edited January 26, 2016 by Steve Ricoh Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 26, 2016 Share #19 Posted January 26, 2016 The cost depends on the work that needs to be done and the amount of goodwill Leica extends meaning the price can range from nil to astronomic. There is no way a forum can answer that question.buy the lens at a reputable dealer with guaranty and you won't have to worry. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Lummes Posted January 26, 2016 Share #20 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Mine went to Solms two times. First: loose aperture ring + focus calibration off Second: oil on blades + focus calibration off Now it is stellar, but Leica, come on, you got to be able to do things right. Edit: I bought it as new, and both issues appeared after about 10 days use. Edited January 26, 2016 by Hannes Lummes 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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