So what's a KE-7a prototype worth

[hepcat]

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There's one ending on ebay now...  with three hours left it was only $1050, but with a little more than two hours left, it's bumped up to $4,000.  As a Navy photographer who used one of these when they were current, I've often thought it would be fun to pick one up... but not at the prices they're commanding on the open market!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M4-black-with-engravings-/161948343551?hash=item25b4df9cff:g:SD8AAOSwUV9WmUzz

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[hepcat]

And three more photos...

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[pico]

I am suspicious of that particular camera, possibly because of my ignorance.

 

Why made in Germany?

Why 'sample 'engraving' on front?

Why a duplicated serial number? (trailing *)

Why is the serial number repeated inside bottom?

Why Eigentum?

[hepcat]

I am suspicious of that particular camera, possibly because of my ignorance.

 

Why made in Germany?

Why 'sample 'engraving' on front?

Why a duplicated serial number? (trailing *)

Why is the serial number repeated inside bottom?

Why Eigentum?

 

Good questions, all... and without provenance on the camera no one will likely ever know those answers.   I can conjecture that it was the prototype for the KE-7a contract cameras...  and had the KE-7a weather sealing that Leica was testing.  My further conjecture is that they used this one as the test engraving camera for the production run.    But who knows?  I doubt that there'll ever be anything definitive on it.  It was sold at auction in July of '15 for a very small amount.   http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/special-auction-services/catalogue-id-srspe10110/lot-ba76c56f-95de-47fc-8033-a4b100add724

[hepcat]

And the seller has very cleverly listed it as a "black M4 with engravings" rather than as a KE-7A.    Perhaps that's significant, perhaps not?

[willeica]

My recollection is that a number of black M film Leicas with unusual engravings in various colours were sold at auction in the UK last year and that the auctioneer stated that it could not fully vouch for their authenticity. The items were sold, as seen, and generally fetched lower prices than one might expect for the models concerned. I cannot find the details of those items online but, subsequent to the auction, I saw one with green engraving in a UK dealer's shop. The camera, mentioned in this thread, seems to have been sold at the same auction, but I am not sure whether the auctioneer applied the 'qualification' to this one. It sold for £650.

 

William

[jc_braconi]

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The very few eigentum I have are like this : engraving ,asterix double s/n, inside engraving and this camera is not a KE7A, IMHO

[hepcat]

The very few eigentum I have are like this : engraving ,asterix double s/n, inside engraving and this camera is not a KE7A, IMHO

 

Interesting.  thank you.  What causes you to render the opinion that its not a KE-7A?

[jc_braconi]

Please make some reaseatch on them on the web if you dont have litterature and you will see that this vamera is just an M4 from the wokshop

[Dr. No]

in May last year there was an auction finished with € 6500,-

 

it should have "Erst Leitz Canada!" I think ...

Edited January 18, 2016 by Dr. No

[pop]

 

Why Eigentum?

This one seems to be easy. The engraving on the camera says "Leitz-Eigentum" which means "Property of Leitz". That would indicate that the camera was not for sale but just for use within the company.

 

The other engravings seem quite weird; I think it most remarkable that some are in German and others in English.

[duckrider]

Hey, a Porsche with Ferrari & Maserati engravings, how nice!

This ordinary M4 shows all signs which make it worthfullier, only the 50yrs stag sign missing.

Worth?

Less than a non faked M4....

Thomas

Edited January 18, 2016 by duckrider

[pico]

This one seems to be easy. The engraving on the camera says "Leitz-Eigentum" which means "Property of Leitz". That would indicate that the camera was not for sale but just for use within the company.

 

The other engravings seem quite weird; I think it most remarkable that some are in German and others in English.

 

And it was made in Germany. Were not the KE-7s made in Canada?

[luigi bertolotti]

...This ordinary M4 shows all signs which make it worthfullier, only the 50yrs stag sign missing.

Worth?

Less than a non faked M4....

Thomas

+ 1

 

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(this is a KE7A...)

Edited January 18, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[hepcat]

And it was made in Germany. Were not the KE-7s made in Canada?

 

Well, yes.  But there were also about 800 M4s built in Canada with the Wetzlar top plates in 1975.  The only way to distinguish that they were built in Canada was from the serial number records.  They're fairly rare.  I don't know if they have any value above a standard M4 though.    The location of the engraving on the production KE-7As is very different from what's pictured here as well, although the font seems to be consistent from this camera to the examples I could find online.  The serial number on this camera 1229460* puts it in the middle of a 9200 camera production run from 1969, however the "*" would indicate that it's a duplicate serial number?  

 

I can't for the life of me understand the "sample engraving" on the front of this one though.   It's not like they'd never engraved a camera before...  so that makes me a little suspect.   Perhaps it was one they'd had lying around for some reason in Midland when the KE-7A order came in and they were experimenting on it.  On the other hand, it could very well be a clever fake.

 

BTW, the one pictured sold today for $7221 USD.

[hepcat]

The auction house that sold this one last July also sold an M4-P that looks pretty suspect to me as well...

 

[pico]

[...]

 

(this is a KE7A...)

 

Wow!

[hepcat]

+ 1

 

KE7A.jpg

 

(this is a KE7A...)

 

I don't remember the ones I used looking that pristine...  I remember them looking more like the cobbled-up M4-P I linked above, rode hard and put away wet. 

[pop]

The auction house that sold this one last July also sold an M4-P that looks pretty suspect to me as well...

 

That one has three typos. There can not be a hyphen between Hautpwerk and Wetzlar, even if the headquarters in Wetzlar ever was called the Hauptwerk (main factory). "fur" is not a german word; presumably they meant to write "für" (for), but the phrase "Leitz-Eigentum für Sonderausfürung" does not make any sense. Lastly, the word "Sonderausführung" needs an h after the ü and the trema over the u (the umlaut dots) have the wrong position.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[willeica]

This is one of the items which l mentioned above. I saw one of these with green engraving in a UK dealer's shop a few weeks after the auction. I cannot find these items, which were sold on a 'qualified basis', on the auctioneer's website now, but the item which is the subject of this thread, SN 1229460*, is still there. Make of that what you wish.

 

William