Has anyone bought an SF40 flash as yet?

[wlaidlaw]

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I understand that the SF40 flash is now available but not the SF64, which I have on order. If anyone has bought the SF40, I would be very interested to learn if it works properly in Aperture Priority mode and fixed ISO on the SL. Can you lock the shutter speed to a fixed value on the camera flash set up menu or set a floor speed of 1 or 2X focal length and have this actually work. This is not working on the SF24 or 58 (the shutter speed remains wholly driven by the ambient light) and it would be interesting to see if this is an SL problem or a flash firmware problem. 

 

Wilson

[jaapv]

I'm interested too, if only for the HSS facility. Would that work with the M?

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[Jared]

Here is what I have found with my testing of the SF 40 (and also with my SF 58--it behaves identically):

 

In program mode, auto slow synch appears to work correctly as long as the ISO is set to auto.  In other words, if I set " Auto Slow Sync" to the default value of "1/f min, 1/60s" it will set the shutter speed to the minimum of either one over the focal ratio or 1/60s, and it will NOT adjust ISO up from the base value of 50. 

 

If I switch to aperture priority (with either the Vario-Elmarit SL lens or an M lens), I get the exact same behavior.  In an effort to balance the ambient light and the flash it will not drop the shutter speed below the value you set in the auto slow sync, and it will not raise the ISO above the base value of 50.  Again, it works as expected.

 

The problem arises if I set the ISO manually rather than selecting Auto ISO.  If, for example, I choose an ISO value of 50 (or 100 or 200 or 400 or any other value), the shutter speed goes to whatever value it feels it needs to for the ambient light and completely ignores the information I set in the "Auto Slow Sync" value.  It seems to forget that the flash is attached and just lets the shutter speed float wherever it needs to for the ambient lighting.

 

Kind of weird behavior, but probably not very difficult to work around it from a practical perspective.  If you want to use the slow synch as expected in the menu, just leave auto ISO turned on.  If you don't want to shoot at base ISO (because of range limitations), then you can switch over to manual rather than aperture priority.  

 

I agree with you that this needs a firmware update, but it isn't anything that would prevent me from getting the shot I want, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.  The workaround is quite practical.

 

The SF 40 is no different in its behavior than the SF 58.  Neat little flash, though.  Doesn't strike me as very durable, but it is extremely compact, reasonably light, takes AA batteries, and actually works consistently in TTL mode.  It also does a fine job in bounce mode.  Unlike the SF 58, it doesn't completely overwhelm my M camera body.  Even looks good on the SL.  

 

One interesting quirk on the SF 40 (beyond the bug you are already concerned about)... The exposure compensation dial on the back of the flash when using TTL mode doesn't have any affect on the exposure.  You MUST use the exposure compensation in the camera body instead.  This is confirmed if you read the manual, but it's not something that would jump out at you, and its different from the expected behavior (or the behavior of the same Nissan i40 on Nikon, Canon, Fuji, and Sony bodies).

 

Overall, I like the SF 40 a lot.  If you want the slow sync issue addressed before you order one, though, you should wait.  Same behavior on the SF 40 as the SF 58 (and presumably the SF 68).  

 

I'm not certain you were aware that the slow sync works properly as long as you leave ISO set to Auto...  See if the same is true with your SF 58.  That might be enough to make you comfortable with this flash or the SF 68.

 

- Jared

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Mine is ordered but I haven't received it yet.

 

Thanks for the report Jared. I am very disappointed to hear the FEC dial doesn't work. It's by far my favourite thing about the i40 flash.

 

Honestly Leica, why do you have to make simple things so friggin difficult?????

 

Gordon

[Jared]

As far as HSS...  It works, but I don't think I would recommend this flash if you are buying it with high speed sync in mind.  Just as with the SF 58, all you need to do to activate HSS is choose a shutter speed shorter than 1/250s.  The reason I wouldn't recommend this flash for that use is the extremely limited range you get, plus the flash is not very tall so vignetting is almost inevitable with the 24-90 at the distances where the flash is powerful enough to work.  Finally, the flash won't tilt down beyond horizontal for close-in work, so again you get light fall-off.  It's workable, but the physical form factor and limited power keep me from recommending the SF 40 for HSS.  Emergencies only.  Get a bigger, more powerful flash for more general HSS use.

 

- Jared

[Jared]

Mine is ordered but I haven't received it yet.

 

Thanks for the report Jared. I am very disappointed to hear the FEC dial doesn't work. It's by far my favourite thing about the i40 flash.

 

Honestly Leica, why do you have to make simple things so friggin difficult?????

 

Gordon

 

Yup, I did confirm that the FEC dial has no effect on the SL.  May be different on the M(240)--I haven't tested on that camera yet.

 

- Jared

[Jared]

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Oh, one other interesting thing... The SL manual says that exposure compensation for the SF 58 must be set on the flash not in the camera body--the exact opposite as for the SF 40.  The manual is wrong.  Exposure compensation set on the flash while in TTL mode for both flashes is ignored by the SL.  You MUST set flash exposure compensation in the camera body.  Don't know whether this is a bug or is intentional, but that's definitely how it works.  Frankly, I'd be happier if the SL worked like most other systems, and the exposure compensation in the two locations was simply added together.  That way you can set it in whichever location you prefer and it will still work. Perhaps Leica was worried that would be confusing?  Don't know.

 

Sorry, it's a little off topic. 

 

- Jared

[Jared]

HSS does, indeed, work with the M, by the way.  Frankly, it works better with the M than with the SL since you don't have the same vignetting problem with a typical M lens, and you can't focus as close so the parallax error is less.  More even illumination.  Works fine for fill flash for bright daylight if you want a wide open aperture.  I'll post a sample in a few minutes.

[Mark Pope]

.  Finally, the flash won't tilt down beyond horizontal for close-in work, so again you get light fall-off....

 

 

- Jared

 

 

I did did a few experiments with my SF40 and 90mm Macro Elmar yesterday, using the diffuser.  I got pretty good results with my M240.  Mind you at it's closest distance, with the macro adaptor there is quite a bit of room between the camera and subject. With other lenses on an SL it may be trickier.

 

Off camera with a Nikon sync cord might be a better solution.

 

I haven't tried the FEC yet...

[Mark Pope]

Yup, I did confirm that the FEC dial has no effect on the SL.  May be different on the M(240)--I haven't tested on that camera yet.

 

- Jared

 

 

I've just tested the FEC dial using the M(240) and I can confirm that it does work.

 

As an aside, I think the full manual is wrong. It contradicts the little paper mini-manual that came with flash, saying that the 'A' setting also uses TTL.  You'd think that if Leica are getting us to pay a handsome premium for a product, they could make the effort to write a decent user manual.

[Jared]

Yup, FEC works on the M(240), but you need to set flash exposure comp in the camera on the SL.

 

'A' setting on all the Nissin 40 iTTL's is TTL without flash exposure comp. it's not using a sensor on the flash. No "automatic" mode on this flash. Just TTL and manual.

 

- Jared

[ramarren]

Yup, FEC works on the M(240), but you need to set flash exposure comp in the camera on the SL.

 

'A' setting on all the Nissin 40 iTTL's is TTL without flash exposure comp. it's not using a sensor on the flash. No "automatic" mode on this flash. Just TTL and manual.

 

 

That makes sense ... The M doesn't have flash exposure compensation in the body, so the flash must supply it, whereas in the SL there is an FEC setting which overrides the on flash setting. 

[Budfox]

I've just tested the FEC dial using the M(240) and I can confirm that it does work.

 

As an aside, I think the full manual is wrong. It contradicts the little paper mini-manual that came with flash, saying that the 'A' setting also uses TTL.  You'd think that if Leica are getting us to pay a handsome premium for a product, they could make the effort to write a decent user manual.

 

Where did you get a copy of the full manual btw?

[Ario Arioldi]

Where did you get a copy of the full manual btw?

Here:

http://us.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads?category=93750&subcategory=&type=&language=93871

[Jared]

I had promised to load a sample of HSS in action... Here are two shots of my son's Nerf rifle taken on a cloudy day, ISO set to 800 manually, aperture wide open at f/2, shutter speed of 1/1,500s on both images. One was taken with the flash turned off, and the other with it turned on in 'A' mode (which is an automatic TTL mode).  I didn't bother to dial in any -EV flash exposure compensation on the HSS shot which I would normally want for a fill scenario like this--just wanted to show that the flash does indeed fire, and does indeed illuminate the whole frame even though the shutter speed is well below the sync speed of 1/250s.

 

Thanks - Jared

 

 

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[Jared]

Since this was taken with the 50mm APO-Summicron rather than with the 24-90 Vario-Elmarit, I didn't need to worry about the lens blocking the flash at all.  At this distance--about 1.2m--I would otherwise have seen some vignetting on the right hand side of this portrait oriented frame.  As I mentioned earlier, the SF 58 or SF 68 is probably a better choice for HSS fill flash on the SL since it sits up higher above the camera and isn't blocked by the lens at all.

 

- Jared

[Peter Kilmister]

Jared, I hope I can be critical in a constructive way. The left hand picture has a lot more detail. The right hand picture has burnt out (over exposed) areas that remove the detail.

I appreciate that these are early days with a new piece of kit and I do hope that your trial shots will be a lesson for anyone thinking of buying the SF40.

[wlaidlaw]

Here is what I have found with my testing of the SF 40 (and also with my SF 58--it behaves identically):

 

In program mode, auto slow synch appears to work correctly as long as the ISO is set to auto.  In other words, if I set " Auto Slow Sync" to the default value of "1/f min, 1/60s" it will set the shutter speed to the minimum of either one over the focal ratio or 1/60s, and it will NOT adjust ISO up from the base value of 50. 

 

If I switch to aperture priority (with either the Vario-Elmarit SL lens or an M lens), I get the exact same behavior.  In an effort to balance the ambient light and the flash it will not drop the shutter speed below the value you set in the auto slow sync, and it will not raise the ISO above the base value of 50.  Again, it works as expected.

 

The problem arises if I set the ISO manually rather than selecting Auto ISO.  If, for example, I choose an ISO value of 50 (or 100 or 200 or 400 or any other value), the shutter speed goes to whatever value it feels it needs to for the ambient light and completely ignores the information I set in the "Auto Slow Sync" value.  It seems to forget that the flash is attached and just lets the shutter speed float wherever it needs to for the ambient lighting.

 

Kind of weird behavior, but probably not very difficult to work around it from a practical perspective.  If you want to use the slow synch as expected in the menu, just leave auto ISO turned on.  If you don't want to shoot at base ISO (because of range limitations), then you can switch over to manual rather than aperture priority.  

 

I agree with you that this needs a firmware update, but it isn't anything that would prevent me from getting the shot I want, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.  The workaround is quite practical.

 

The SF 40 is no different in its behavior than the SF 58.  Neat little flash, though.  Doesn't strike me as very durable, but it is extremely compact, reasonably light, takes AA batteries, and actually works consistently in TTL mode.  It also does a fine job in bounce mode.  Unlike the SF 58, it doesn't completely overwhelm my M camera body.  Even looks good on the SL.  

 

One interesting quirk on the SF 40 (beyond the bug you are already concerned about)... The exposure compensation dial on the back of the flash when using TTL mode doesn't have any affect on the exposure.  You MUST use the exposure compensation in the camera body instead.  This is confirmed if you read the manual, but it's not something that would jump out at you, and its different from the expected behavior (or the behavior of the same Nissan i40 on Nikon, Canon, Fuji, and Sony bodies).

 

Overall, I like the SF 40 a lot.  If you want the slow sync issue addressed before you order one, though, you should wait.  Same behavior on the SF 40 as the SF 58 (and presumably the SF 68).  

 

I'm not certain you were aware that the slow sync works properly as long as you leave ISO set to Auto...  See if the same is true with your SF 58.  That might be enough to make you comfortable with this flash or the SF 68.

 

- Jared

 

Jared, 

 

Many thanks for the detailed update. It looks as if the problem is in the SL not the 58. I was aware that on aperture priority the shutter speed control seems to work on Auto ISO but you are limited to 50 ISO, which greatly restricts the range of the flash. A lot of my flash work is on outside festivals, where I would often be using ISO's up to 2400 to get long range illumination (for more flash power I have a Graflash where I can use PF300 bulbs but that is expensive at around £9/bulb). Given what you tell me, I am tempted to cancel my order for an SF64, as it looks as if it will not do any more than the SF58. The only advantage I would get apart from slightly increased power, is auto HSS, which being a series one 58, I have to select manually plus the ability to alter exposure/flash power from the camera rather than the somewhat fiddly procedure of doing it on the flash. 

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

 

 

As an aside, I think the full manual is wrong. It contradicts the little paper mini-manual that came with flash, saying that the 'A' setting also uses TTL.  You'd think that if Leica are getting us to pay a handsome premium for a product, they could make the effort to write a decent user manual.

 

Leica never write decent manuals for anything - why change the habit of a lifetime? 

 

Actually if you go back and look at the manuals they were writing in the 1950's, they were excellent, admittedly on much simpler cameras. They even recommended ways of holding the cameras for optimum use. I suspect that Leica Canada had a hand in writing the English language manuals then, as they don't have the usual mistranslations and errors that are par for the course nowadays. 

 

Wilson

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[DirkR440]

Just got mine today. I like it a lot because it is small and therefor easy to put in my bag while I'm traveling. That is my setup:

 

Leica M-P with SF 40 Flash by Dirk Raffel, auf Flickr