What I found!

[pico]

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What I found! A lot of Agfa Brovira BN111 double-weight paper so old that it has no expiration date.

All in the original unbroken boxes.

 

Agfa Brovira is what I printed all the Good Stuff in the day.

 

...now to find out how to deal with old age fog. I mean paper fog. My fog is incurable

 

[david strachan]

I don't think you can pico.  The fog is there and you'll always have a "cream" white, never a "pure" paper white.

I've used very old bulk B&W film stored in a bedside table for 15 years, but all my trials with old paper were futile.

 

But, there are many papers with a cream tint...so it just might be a matter of choosing your subject for printing with these old papers.

 

Here is some info from my "The Darkroom Cookbook" by Anchell. page 39..Benzotriazole  (often used in PQ formulas)..

"For saving outdated papers, mix a 0.2% solution(2 grams in water at 125degF to make I litre).  Add 15ml of this solution to every litre of developer.  If 15ml does not do the trick, keep adding 15ml at a time and making tests until you get a clear paper without fog...(do a proper fix and wash)...It is advisable with all old paper, even those not exhibiting fog, to keep developing times between 45 sec and 1.5 minutes (the longer paper develops, the more likely it will become fogged).."

I never tried this because I got the "Cookbook" and all its marvellous formulas after I stopped using a vast amount of old paper..which I used to use for experimental work with toners, learning to dodge and burn, etcetc.

 

You might like to consider some toners to mask the fog.  eg Gold toner, Selenium or Thiocarbamide (brownish tone)...or just make everything sepia with sulphide toners.

 

As for old age fog...well I'm still looking for the right chemistry there too, so I keep experimenting with different drink concoctions...I do know red wine, or whisky does not work!

 

all best Dave S

Edited January 2, 2016 by david strachan

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[Michael Hiles]

Look into adding Benzatriozole in you developer. It has the effect of clearing fog, and has been used with old paper to brighten whites.

 

BTW - this is what I have read- never tried it. I suggest that you research it in older books. Maybe your old paper can be saved. Also, if it was stored in a cool place, the expiry data my be optimistic.

[gbealnz]

Give it a go, at least Pico.

I am always using old and out-dated paper, works for me.

Every now and then I splurge if I have something "important" to print.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Gary

[pico]

Thanks for the input. David, I will look for the book! Very good.

[gyoung]

When I used lith film regularly we always had a dish of potassium fericyanide handy to clear up any fogging in the clear bits, a very quick swill did the trick before rewashing. It might work on paper if its the emulsion that has the fog. If its the paper base that has discoloured then not likely.

 

Gerry

[david strachan]

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Yes, the wonder "add light" Potassium Ferricyanide.  No dark room worker should be without it.  I used to use it a lot if my dodging wasn't what I'd hoped.  Use sparingly...it dissolves the black silver from the print.

Pico, have you managed to find the book?  It's all in there, found after a vast collection of notebooks, scraps of paper etc.. a bit late for me at the time. If you have trouble I'll lend you mine as long as you need it...just need your address.

 

It can add yellow though make sure it's washed very thoroughly.

 

cheers  Dave S

 

Edit...I find my old edition here..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/The-Darkroom-Cookbook-by-Stephen-G-Anchell-1994-Paperback-/141868986564?hash=item21080cf0c4:g:qi4AAOSwrklVKjO4

but note there is a new edition.

Edited January 12, 2016 by david strachan

[tobey bilek]

Also known as "anti fog #1  and #2.  You will need to increase exposure.

 

The problem is not just cream base,  it is less contrast in highlights.  

[M.Hilo]

See if you can find something like this where you are . . .

 

https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/system/?func=detailcall&wkid=21575499495679&prodid=1&artnr=3855000

 

I am about to spend some days opening up different envelopes of Agfa Record Rapid and Agfa Brovira. What is beyond salvation I can then throw away . . . but I hope to print many negatives. I bought this Moersch stuff, let's hope it works

[pico]

Let us know how it works for you.

.

Edited January 16, 2016 by pico

[M.Hilo]

Let us know how it works for you.

.

It did and it didn't.

 

My developer was fresh and I used the maximum dilution of this anti fog stuff.

 

I first printed from an Agfa Record Rapid 30X40 envelope graded hard. When putting the sheet in the easel, I left only one weak yellow light on in the furthest corner of my darkroom (about 6 meters from the enlarger) and while printing that got turned off (happens automatically when I expose). I developed with again that same light only.

 

The print was totally soft and the white edges around the images were totally medium grey. I ditched that envelope.

 

Then I took a same grade hard sheet from a 50X60 envelope, cut it in half and tested, plus made a print. No problems with the white around the image, but the print was still much too soft.

 

I then switched to Ilford Warmtone multigrade and got the perfect print easily. I am keeping this envelope Record Rapid (and about 10 others) and will try again with more contrasty negatives.

 

So, there are two basic problems when doing this: first the problem of the paper turning grey, instead of remaining white in unexposed parts. I know I could not have made my darkroom any darker, it was almost like working in the full dark. I used a late model Leitz easel and this one really does cover the paper under the blades, etc. The sides of my first print's paper were evenly grey. I believe no anti fog stuff can help there.

 

With the second print it could have worked, or the paper just did not have this problem. But the paper had turned too soft. About 1.5 to 2 grades in multi grade thinking. This negative I could not get right, but other negatives maybe. It's a pity because from my early work I miss only this one image and all the others are on Record Rapid . . .

 

I got this Record Rapid when Agfa stopped making it, about 20 to 15 years ago. About 30 envelopes 50X60 grade hard. I used about half of that for a couple of years, then switched to Ilford warmtone. This was the first time I made a serious effort.