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SL and HSS flash?


profus

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Hi,

 

Is High Speed Sync Flash photography possible with Leica SL?

If not - what is the highest possible flash sync speed?

Is it possible to use Pocket wizard's wireless transceivers to control Nikon's flash ( SB-900 or SB-800 )?

 

Thank you very much!

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There are multiple problems with the current range of flashes (SF24/26/58) and the SL, particularly if you want to use them in normal TTL/GNC mode, which would be aperture priority, fixed ISO and either a fixed shutter speed or slow sync shutter speed. Leica is aware of these problems (I had a meeting with them in London) and hopefully they are working on a firmware update for the SL. The feeling was that an update may also be required for the SF 58, the only current model that is theoretically able to have its firmware updated. Whether this will be forthcoming, probably depends on the pressure current owners of the SF58 who also have an SL, put on Leica to get it done, most likely by Metz-Mecatech, who made it in their previous company. I have had no response to my email follow up to and summary of the meeting sent at London's request, to Wetzlar, which is very disappointing. I am increasingly pessimistic that there will be any solution before the new flashes are released (the 40 and 64) and I am dubious that anything will be solved for legacy flashes.  :(  :( I would love to be proved wrong. 

 

Wilson

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Gordon - can you explain how you use HSS on the SL - ie which exposure mode works best (M, A, T or P) and how do you make the camera 'force flash' above the 1/250 sync speed?

 

thanks

 

When I use flash I'm 90%+ in manual mode with a fixed ISO. That way I can blend the subject and background as I want. HSS kicks in automatically above 1/250 with my SF58 (firmware 2.0).

 

When I use A or S it's because I'm in a situation where things are moving dynamically and I'll just dial in a bit of FEC and let the camera/flash do it's thing. In these situations I use A most of the time and the flash will go into and out of HSS as needed. I'll only use S when I want to force the flash NOT to use HSS (I'll set the shutter at 1/250 and let the camera go) because of the large loss in power HSS has.

 

My needs are relatively simple. I have no interest in auto slow speed sync etc. I'll just go to manual mode and drag the shutter in that case.

 

Gordon

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Thanks Gordon, very helpful.

 

I have SF58 firmware 1.1, which means I have to manually choose HSS which I will try. In any case, when I have used the SL in A mode and fixed ISO I find the flash only fires at around shutter speed 1/30 or less (!).

 

I will check at home my other parameters as I presume the camera is deciding I don't need flash until the shutter is that slow for some reason.

 

Roy

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I would agree with Gordon that the best work around at the moment is to use the SF58 in M mode on the SL and the flash in TTL-HSS. If you use it in T, ambient lighting can affect the aperture too much IMHO. In M mode, the SF58 seems to underexpose very slightly (about 1/3 EV) compared with the M240, which I find tends to overexpose by around 1/3 EV. The other odd feature is that although my Sto-Fen diffusor works very well with SF58 on my M240 and M9, to the extent I leave it on all the time, it seems to totally upset the auto flash control on the SL, so I have had to leave it off. Bounce plus fill in works well on the SL and I find the fill-in set at 1/4 seems about correct to me up to around 8 metres, for further than this you would have to increase. The funny thing is that communication from the camera to the flash is working perfectly, with focal length and aperture being transmitted accurately. It seems as if it is the communication from the flash to the camera that is not being recognised properly, which gives me a faint hope that it can all be cured with a camera firmware update.

 

Wilson

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I've used the SL with Pocketwizards, but only in manual flash mode (to trigger Nikon SB28 via PW receivers).

 

Have you used SL with Pocketwizards to trigger Nikon flash in HSS mode? Would that be possible? It is rather important to me ( I am considering ditching my Nikon system all together :o )

 

Thank you very much

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Anyone that could give more info about it? I would greatly appreciate it...

 

Is it possible to use SL in HSS mode using wireless triggers and speedlights ( Nikon's SB-800/900 that are HSS compatible or Leica's ones ( which one - I never used Leica speedlight? )) ?

 

Tnx

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I just checked with my SF 58 (Leica/Metz) flash and the SL.  HSS mode is set automatically on the flash when the flash is mounted in the hot shoe and shutter speeds climb up over 1/250s.  Obviously, range is severely impacted (as you would expect).  I also tried this same combination using  Nikon SC-17 remote cord and everything worked the same--HSS was fine.  The pin-out on Leica and Nikon hot shoes is identical so the cable works fine.

 

I checked with my Phottix Strato II wireless triggers and HSS is NOT supported.  That is as expected since not even TTL flash metering is supported using these simple triggers.  They are meant for--and work well for--manual, remote flash but do not support anything sophisticated like TTL or HSS.  It is possible that something like the Phottix Odin or Pocket Wizard MiniTT1 would work for HSS (they both support HSS on Nikon and the pin-out on Nikon is identical to Leica), but there is no guarantee that Leica and Nikon are similar enough in their signals for HSS to work with ANY wireless trigger that isn't designed specifically for Leica.  Maybe someone else has experience? Frankly, I doubt it is possible to get HSS to work off-camera at this time, and PocketWizard has never supported Leica for anything other than manual triggering of flashes.  For that, the PocketWizard (or the less expensive Phottix Strato II's) work just great.  Multiple channels and multiple zones.  

 

By the way, for manual settings I would expect triggers like the Phottix and PocketWizard to work well with your SB-800/900 flashes as well.  Again, the same pin-out for Nikon and Leica means that you should be able to trigger a manually set Nikon strobe the same way as a manually set Leica strobe.

 

If remote trigger of flashes in HSS mode is an important part of your photography, I don't think ditching your Nikon system is possible at this time.

 

- Jared

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I just checked with my SF 58 (Leica/Metz) flash and the SL.  HSS mode is set automatically on the flash when the flash is mounted in the hot shoe and shutter speeds climb up over 1/250s.  Obviously, range is severely impacted (as you would expect).  I also tried this same combination using  Nikon SC-17 remote cord and everything worked the same--HSS was fine.  The pin-out on Leica and Nikon hot shoes is identical so the cable works fine.

 

 

It is possible that something like the Phottix Odin or Pocket Wizard MiniTT1 would work for HSS (they both support HSS on Nikon and the pin-out on Nikon is identical to Leica), but there is no guarantee that Leica and Nikon are similar enough in their signals for HSS to work with ANY wireless trigger that isn't designed specifically for Leica. 

 

 

If remote trigger of flashes in HSS mode is an important part of your photography, I don't think ditching your Nikon system is possible at this time.

 

- Jared

 

 

Thank you very much. Very useful answers. Just want to be sure I got it right:

 

- You got it working with Nikon SC-17 cord?  I mean SL + SF 58 was fully working in HSS in that setup? That would be a good news! Is SF 58 only Leica speedlite offering HSS feature? It would be interesting to test this setup with one of Nikon's speedlites to see if HSS could be triggered

 

I still find it incredible, that Leica doesn't offer some kind of dedicated sync cord and / or wireless trigger to make off-camera flash photography possible  :blink::wacko:

 

I find remote triggering of flashes in HSS mode very useful and that is a part of my photography. I was greatly inspired by Dylan Patrick and his work. I would be happy to be able to continue with it. Setup with SC-17 should do the trick if no wireless triggers could be used.

 

Thanks once more!

Edited by profus
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There is a difference between the series 1 and series 2 SF58 and the firmware to update one to the other was never released for some reason. One difference is that HSS mode sets automatically on the series 2, whereas in series one, which I have, you have to set it manually on the flash controls. I think there are other minor differences as well. 

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My SF 58 must be series two, then, since HSS enables automatically when I select a shutter speed faster than 1/250s on the SL. I can see it light up in the LCD. And yes, it works the same on the Nikon SC-17 cord as well and produces an evenly exposed image. This feature is also available on the newly announced SF 64 and SF 40, but I have no experience with those units.

 

I would be very surprised if HSS worked with a Nikon speed light on the SC-17 but I no longer have any Nikon flashes, so I can't try it out. My guess is that the SC-17 and Leica flash combination is the only way to get off camera HSS, and that would limit you to a single strobe with a fairly short cable. Of course, HSS uses so much power range is going to be limited in any event.

 

- Jared

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The 40 and 64 flashes were supposed to be available by the end of 2015 but I don't think anyone has seen any that have escaped from Leica Wetzlar, Metz Solms or Nissin, Tokyo as yet. The dealers seem to be still listing them as advance purchase. I am certainly not going to buy a 64 until I know that it hasn't the same faults as the 58 on the SL. I will ask Jimmy Hughes at Leica UK to stick one on an SL and check that I can either lock shutter speed or set to a multiple of focal length in Aperture priority, with the ISO fixed. If it works, I will buy a 64, as I cannot wait until Leica decides to fix the 58 or has the budget to do so, since I might well die of old age before that happens. This on the basis that a simple firmware correction on the M240/MF grip, has still not happened after close to two years now, since it was agreed as being necessary. 

 

Wilson

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  • 9 months later...

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