Revisiting the Leica M9 vs the Leica M 262 at overgaard.dk

[Jeff S]

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I predict that this 262 will not sell well in the secondary market once the new digital M arrives...

That may depend on whether there eventually is a 'simplified' version of that new M (as the M-E was to the M9, and as the M262 is to the M240)....and if so, how long it takes to come to market.  

 

In the meantime, as Jaap notes, many buyers are motivated by price and will seize the opportunity if the camera/price point suits.

 

Jeff

[asiafish]

It is a whole lot more simple. The 262 has the same relationship to the 240 as the ME has to theM9 : An affordable simplified camera to boost end- of-series sales and provide an entry level model to the successor camera. Thus the comparison is valid.

 

If they'd only painted it gray.

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[asiafish]

Now that depends entirely on the relative pricing. I don't think that any ME buyer outside this Forum gave a second thought to the sensor technology.

 

Really?

 

I don't think very  many people spend over $5000 on a camera body without thinking about the sensor technology.  I don't very many cared about how the technology works, but I would imagine most M-E buyers bought it because they wanted the "M9-look" in a less expensive, simpler or gray package.

[hepcat]

CMOS ≠ CCD

Apples and oranges

 

As an M9P owner who has no intention of buying an M240 or M262 simply because I don't need one, I think that while many folks here discern a significant difference between the two sensors, the general buying public is unconcerned.   The analogy between the M262 and M-E is apt as they are both less expensive versions of the flagship unit predecessor...  and technology marches on. 

[jaapv]

Well, I think they just wanted a Leica camera at a lower price. The Leica-look, whatever that may be, can be created from the files of either camera, given some postprocessing skills.

 

I think the lens does far more in that respect than a sensor. Analogy - film. The alleged Leica look could/can be created on many different brands and types of film.

[pgk]

Well, I think they just wanted a Leica camera at a lower price.

I just bought a rather battered (but overhauled and new sensored) M9 very cheap (with warranty). Its  aback up and replaces an M8.2. I'd have happily bought an ME, and if cheap enough I'd have bought an M262 or even an M240. The base reason for the change being the crop factor and need for UVIR filters on the M8.2 - though I still find the M8.2 perfectly usable. This constant argument about sensors and differences is in all honesty, and certainly in image terms, of little real relevance to me. I use RF cameras as sell photos. The point about the M262 and the M9 is that will both are familiar RF cameras and do the same thing as far as I'm concerned - take 'good' saleable images.

[otto.f]

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A bit OTT I would say, I see it as an attempt to write a Putsian piece, no harm in that.

Change the title then, the leading theme and introduction of the M262

[hepcat]

Change the title then, the leading theme and introduction of the M262

I've read your criticism of the article, and I would suggest that when you've written an article that is quoted or linked here that you may do with it as you will.  And I suspect that the author of the article with which you have taken issue will likely do the same.  

[MarkP]

If they'd only painted it gray.

 

[A miller]

As an M9P owner who has no intention of buying an M240 or M262 simply because I don't need one, I think that while many folks here discern a significant difference between the two sensors, the general buying public is unconcerned.   The analogy between the M262 and M-E is apt as they are both less expensive versions of the flagship unit predecessor...  and technology marches on. 

To buttress my case even further, let's not forget that the CCD sensors carry an unlimited lifetime warranty - even to transferees - so long as Leica has the parts.

Apples and oranges, indeed

 

I can get a mint 240 for $4K right now; and why exactly would I pay 25% more for the same exact sensor and materially less functionality (with only a 2 year limited warranty)???

 

It just doesn't make sense in a rational world.

 

I can think of a lot better ways to spend the extra $1K...

 

to me, this is slicing the salami too thin...and I thought that the M-E was thin...

Edited December 28, 2015 by A miller

[jaapv]

I can get a mint 240 for $4K right now; and why exactly would I pay 25% more for the same exact sensor and materially less functionality (with only a 2 year limited warranty)???

Because you get a new one instead of second hand?

[A miller]

Because you get a new one instead of second hand?

this logic would be compelling of the 262 had the same functionality as the 240.  In other words, what Leica should really be doing is dropping the price of the 240 to $5200.  That would make sense as it would be priced about the same premium as the M-E was relative to Ex+/Mint M9 prices upon initial release.

 

Alternatively, the 262 should be fit with a CCD sensor...

Edited December 28, 2015 by A miller

[hepcat]

this logic would be compelling of the 262 had the same functionality as the 240.  In other words, what Leica should really be doing is dropping the price of the 240 to $5200.  That would make sense as it would be priced about the same premium as the M-E was relative to Ex+/Mint M9 prices upon initial release.

 

Alternatively, the 262 should be fit with a CCD sensor...

Need I remind you that my M9P carried a new list price of $7995? <shudder>

[A miller]

Need I remind you that my M9P carried a new list price of $7995? <shudder>

sorry, I missed your point

[hepcat]

sorry, I missed your point

The M240 is one of the best selling cameras Leica has ever built, at a price point significantly lower than the former flagship model, and you think they ought to drop the price?  That wouldn't be a very good business move on their part.  Now they're offering a less expensive alternative.  It will sell quite nicely. 

[jaapv]

In other words, what Leica should really be doing is dropping the price of the 240 to $5200.

Now that would please owners who paid full list price recently no end...

[Steve Ricoh]

Now that would please owners who paid full list price recently no end...

Certainly agree as a recent customer in October 15, even though I received a respectible discount against full list. But at least the Leica brand suffers from less depreciation than many Japanese cameras, and the M lenses hold their value well. We're buying into a system, and although new models will come along, I'm hoping the 240 will provide many years of useful service. 

[A miller]

The M240 is one of the best selling cameras Leica has ever built, at a price point significantly lower than the former flagship model, and you think they ought to drop the price?  That wouldn't be a very good business move on their part.  Now they're offering a less expensive alternative.  It will sell quite nicely. 

but the 240 was cheaper than the M9 upon release not b/c Leica is nice but b/c the cost of making the camera has declined.  So this is the trend.

Accordingly, just as the price of the M-E upon initial release was materially less than the M9, it would be reasonable to expect there same for the 240.  

[jaapv]

You really lost me here.

The M240 is end of production and the price is what it is. Expect some cashback scheme in the near future, that is what Leica has always done to clear remaining stock.

As a continuing cheaper 240 type camera we will have the 262 for the coming years, and we will have a new model, at a pricepoint which will possibly be similar to the current M240, but that is obviously not yet known.

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Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

 

I can get a mint 240 for $4K right now; and why exactly would I pay 25% more for the same exact sensor and materially less functionality (with only a 2 year limited warranty)???

 

 

 

 

Some buyers will even pay a premium for less, e.g., the M 60 edition, or sometimes even for removing a dot and a letter or changing a color....less is sometimes more.  You're on the Leica forum, remember....choices and preferences and opinions rule.

 

Also, as already noted, the M262 does offer a new and quieter shutter re-cock system, as well as an aluminum top plate, which is lighter and apparently offers better heat transfer between hot/cold conditions.

 

[And the sensor isn't identical according to mjh.]

 

Jeff