Revisiting the Leica M9 vs the Leica M 262 at overgaard.dk

[Overgaard]

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I have done a comparison of the previous Leica M models from Leica M8 and forward to the new Leica M 262. Maybe a buyers guide for anyone new to Leica M. 

 

Enjoy!

 

"Revisiting the Leica M9 as the Leica M 262"

 

 

[duckrider]

For a junkie like me Your writings always are an enjoyment tor read!

That "want to have" factor - when there is danger of dissapearing - I only need to read one of Your articles and I'm on drug again.

 

Thanks to You and best wishes for You and Your loved ones

Thomas

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[Steve Ricoh]

Both an interesting and informative article, thank you!

[Overgaard]

For a junkie like me Your writings always are an enjoyment tor read!

That "want to have" factor - when there is danger of dissapearing - I only need to read one of Your articles and I'm on drug again.

 

Thanks to You and best wishes for You and Your loved ones

Thomas

I feel with you :-)

[Belle123]

Nice review.  Thanks!

[Archiver]

Thorsten, this article is disappointing and not at all up to your usual standards. It isn't really about the M 262, it's more like a rundown of the M9 and how it differs from the M240 models. The M 262 is not at all the M9 with the M 240 sensor, as your article seems to state several times.

 

"A Leica M 240 in a Leica M9 body

The Leica M 262 that Leica Camera AG surprisingly introduced November 2015 is basically a Leica M 240 in a Leica M9 body. This is exiting news in so many ways that I will now test your patience for a few minutes in trying to explain it.

In the digital era, the Leica M9 (2009) is the digital camera where Leica Camera AG just got it right. That's why a Leica M9 with modernized interior is good news"

 

The article literally states that it is a M9 body, which is totally inaccurate. The M 262 might have the stepped top plate of the M9, but the body itself is very clearly that of the M240.

 

In an interview with a top Leica official (perhaps Stefan Daniel?) it was stated that the M240 is built from entirely new parts, and nothing from the M9 was used in it.  The M 262 is essentially a stripped down M 240, not a modernized M9.

 

Every photo in this article is from the M9. You also state that you have no intention/need to buy a M262 because you have two M9s and two M 240s. So, this article isn't informed from the perspective of direct experience, but from reading a spec sheet and doing some comparisons.

 

And what kind of advice is this?

 

"The choice of the future - The Leica M 262

If you like the Leica M 240 but actually would like to give the impression that you are old school, then the Leica M 262 is the right one. It has the simplicity, the charm and all that the Leica M9 has. Yet it has the technology of the Leica M 240 without the video gadgets"

 

You're implying that the potential buyer of a Leica M actually cares about whether some hypothetical onlookers think they are 'old school', and that this should be a factor in their decision making process. And you're also implying that the M9 is 'old school'?? I thought that the M3 or M6 were old school, but never mind.

 

You also say that the M 262 has the 'simplicity, charm and all the Leica M9 has'. But you have no use for the M 262, nor have you posted any photos from it, so how exactly do you know this?

 

This article is in no way up to the usual well-informed standards of your previous articles, and is very misleading in its description of the M 262 compared with M9 design.

[Bill Livingston]

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I have to say I completely agree with your post.

 

I, too, was very disappointed in Thorstens article and very nearly wrote a similar post to your yesterday, then decided against it.

 

i am doubly disappointed in that it actually adds to the confusion one or two members already have with regard to the 262 and the fact it is a M240 based camera... as is the M-P, the 246 Monochrome and the M60. 

 

I am also very disappointed because I have always thought of Thorstens articles as the most interesting of all the articles on the web  and are usually somewhere I would wholeheartedly recommend to other readers who would like to know a little more about the world of Leica cameras (I can forgive the occasional spelling or grammatical error as I admire the fact that Thorsten writes in his second language and still manages to communicate better than most of the writers we have access to on the web).

 

So, all in all, a very disappointing article which fundamentally misses the point of the 262 and unfortunately adds to the ridiculous myth that there is any real connection to the M9... which will possibly please some M9 users, but very few others.

 

Ultimately, I blame Leica. Their ridiculous change from a series of M cameras to changing to just 'M' and then a type number just makes it all so easy to mislead/misinform/misunderstand.

 

The M9 was fine... M9-P was fine... M9-M would have been clearer and easier to determine vintage in the future. There should have been an M9-E, rather than ME and there should have been an M10... The M10-P, M10-M and now, the M10-E. (Obviously I will not bring in the ridiculousness of having a film camera referred to as an MP and a digital camera referred to as an M-P!!!!)

 

All versions would then have commonality... And all original versions should have M10, M11 etc., on the first iteration, and all subsequent iterations would have the model engraved on the accessories plate... more or less as they do now... although the ME seems to be different from the 262 in that ME is on the front.

 

Pathetic really. Someone at Leica should actually be in control of all of this. It makes for MUCH stronger model identity and branding.

 

it also would reduce the inevitable confusion with those who perhaps have a less clear understanding of the various models within the M range and make it easier to note precisely which camera any particular person is talking about in any one time (rather than having to write out a complete sentence of explanation, or at the very least, a phrase, in order to make it clear...).

 

Total nonsense. Whoever came up with this fiasco at Leica should be fired... And Thorsten, sorry. I love you a lot, but this is a VERY poor article.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Bill Livingston

[asiafish]

And all original versions should have M10, M11 etc., on the first iteration, and all subsequent iterations would have the model engraved on the accessories plate... more or less as they do now... although the ME seems to be different from the 262 in that ME is on the front.

 

M-E only has M-E engraved on the accessory shoe.  Other than the red dot, it is the stealthiest of all M cameras as it is painted a lovely stealth gray, has no lettering on the front plate and no script on the top deck.

[Jeff S]

The interesting thing about the body of the M262 is the lighter aluminum top plate that apparently does a better job transitioning between hot/humid and cold conditions... read bottom paragraph here....  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/254800-m262-a-few-musings-after-a-week-of-shooting-in-florida/

 

The new and quieter (than the M240) shutter re-cock system also distinguishes the M262....with the M9 not even in the same ballpark, even with its awkward discreet mode, which just delays the inevitable motor whine.

 

So, neither M240 nor M9-like, in some respects....although clearly based on the M240.  I agree that the naming structure is poor and not intuitive, especially for the uninitiated.

 

Jeff

[pgk]

Thorsten, this article is disappointing and not at all up to your usual standards. It isn't really about the M 262, it's more like a rundown of the M9 and how it differs from the M240 models.

 

"Revisiting the Leica M9 as the Leica M 262"

 

 

The clue is in the title. I saw the article not so much as a comparison as a revisitation of the M9 and the way the current offering (the M262) has a clear lineage from the M9 as opposed to the M240.

 

As such I had no problem with the article and found it to be quite readable and interesting. Take any such article literally and it will be full of holes. But I really don't think that its meant to be anything other than an article which extolls the virtues of the M9 and its 'reinvention' as the M262.

 

I do agree with Bill though - the current model coding 'system' is a somewhat shambolic mess.

[Bill Livingston]

M-E only has M-E engraved on the accessory shoe.  Other than the red dot, it is the stealthiest of all M cameras as it is painted a lovely stealth gray, has no lettering on the front plate and no script on the top deck.

Apologies... I should have checked. I couldn't picture the M-E, but I assumed that as it had the red dot it would also have the front engraved. Just goes to show there is NO standard means of branding on the cameras themselves. The ME should have the same general appearance as the 262... And I would have preferred a black chrome to the grey of the E, similar to the current 262 finish... but it shows even more inconsistency to the appearance of the M camera series...

 

Really needs to to get someone to take charge of it at Leica... For a premium camera, the branding, model identifiers and lack of consistency in finish of the variations within a range is a total mess...

[pgk]

Apologies... I should have checked. I couldn't picture the M-E, but I assumed that as it had the red dot it would also have the front engraved. Just goes to show there is NO standard means of branding on the cameras themselves. The ME should have the same general appearance as the 262... And I would have preferred a black chrome to the grey of the E, similar to the current 262 finish... but it shows even more inconsistency to the appearance of the M camera series...

 

Really needs to to get someone to take charge of it at Leica... For a premium camera, the branding, model identifiers and lack of consistency in finish of the variations within a range is a total mess...

It doesn't take a lot of research to show that the most popular finishes for Leica M Series cameras are: Black paint over brass (just look at prices for well used older cameras - the 'premium finish ), Chrome  and Black chrome. These odd grey finishes don't do anything for me (mind you I'm not good on finishes - as long as the camera works....). I accept that the finish on the M262 is going to be different, but that said aluminium can be treated to some very good finishes indeed - such as hard Eloxal silver (a very attractive finish not dis-similar to chrome).

[bybrett]

If the M262 is an M240 in an M9 then 'conceptually' the M60 is an M240 in an M7.

[2wk]

Seriously... What on earth would have been wrong with M10, M11 etc... Keep the 50 year tradition going...

[lm_user]

They probably wanted to stop short of M16....

 

BTW. Didnt the tradituon start with the M3 and 3 pairs of frame lines.

Edited December 27, 2015 by lm_user

[uhoh7]

Certainly the blog is an "ode to the M9".

 

Politics seems to surround every aspect of Leica. Externally folks will bash Leica from many angles, but the internal controversies are equally impassioned. The M9 vs M240 furor is the biggest, but the trouble with the sensor corrosion took the wind out of the M9 side's sails recently. This and the elaborate side by side comparisons of edited images from both cameras which seemed to show the 240 could really do the "M9 look" perfectly fine.

 

The M240 acolytes are very satisfied, and of course it's a great camera and has features the M9 lacks, at a cost of 1500 extra USD and 100 grams or so. But the M9 at base ISO remains spectacular and seems better tuned to lenses like the 28 cron and 50 Lux asph. It is now a mere 2200USD used in many cases, and far more attainable than ever before.

 

Add to this that a great deal of trouble went into the M9 RAW output. Or at least it seems so compared to the M240. If you enjoy the contrasty kodachrome look, the M9 can often deliver straight out of the camera. Colors are excellent to many eyes. Admittedly, like all digital cameras the WB can be fickle so it's no given you are going to get "the look" with each shot. But the RAWs are very pliable.

 

So while I have to agree the blog has nothing to do with the 262, the 262 does have alot to do with the M9, handling wise. As far as the images, it's all 240 there.

Edited December 27, 2015 by uhoh7

[Overgaard]

Thanks, interesting discussion. 

 

The article is a "Revisit to the Leica m9" and not a review of the Leica M 262. I see that as a interim offering till we get the M 241 and a camera that may fall in the taste of a small fragment who has been not wanting to move to the M240.

It may all reflect the starting confusion about which model is what and which to get. I would hope to shed some light onto this for people new to Leica, but I doubt it is possible to make it completely clear. 

Maybe we get the Leica M10 at Photokina 2016. That would be nice....

[asiafish]

It doesn't take a lot of research to show that the most popular finishes for Leica M Series cameras are: Black paint over brass (just look at prices for well used older cameras - the 'premium finish ), Chrome  and Black chrome. These odd grey finishes don't do anything for me (mind you I'm not good on finishes - as long as the camera works....). I accept that the finish on the M262 is going to be different, but that said aluminium can be treated to some very good finishes indeed - such as hard Eloxal silver (a very attractive finish not dis-similar to chrome).

 

I love the gray, and it was one of the things that helped me decide between a new M-E and a VERY gently used and warranted M9 (about $1000 cheaper) and M9p (about $500 more).

[asiafish]

Thanks, interesting discussion. 

 

The article is a "Revisit to the Leica m9" and not a review of the Leica M 262. I see that as a interim offering till we get the M 241 and a camera that may fall in the taste of a small fragment who has been not wanting to move to the M240.

It may all reflect the starting confusion about which model is what and which to get. I would hope to shed some light onto this for people new to Leica, but I doubt it is possible to make it completely clear. 

Maybe we get the Leica M10 at Photokina 2016. That would be nice....

 

I think you did just fine Thorsten, and thanks for all of the beautiful M9 pictures.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

You can't make such a statement: M262 is the new M9 if and when you don't know anything yet about the differences between the sensors of M240 and M262, you're making yourself untrustworthy here, sorry