carl170 Posted December 1, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have recently purchased a IIIf and I can't wait to use it. I have a Industar lens on the way to get me started. I have a choice of two lenses within my rather meagre budget either 3.5/50 Elmar or 2/50 Summicron (both collapsible). Can anyone point me in the right direction? It will be used for basic photograpy shots, until I am comfortable with the camera. Thanks in advance for any opinions anyone can offer! Regards Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Hi carl170, Take a look here 3.5/50 Elmar or 2/50 Summicron - Advice please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
willeica Posted December 1, 2015 Share #2 Posted December 1, 2015 Best of luck with your new IIIf. Leaving aside obvious differences like size and maximum aperture, a Summicron would be coated and would, normally, be regarded as the 'better' lens, but much would depend upon condition. A good condition Elmar would, of course, be a better bet than a poor quality Summicron. Will you have an opportunity to inspect the lenses before purchase? If so, you need to try the focus and the aperture for stiffness. You would also need to inspect the glass either with a small torch or by holding the lens up to a light source to look for scratches, dust and haze. The LTM Elmar was produced for almost 35 years and there are over 20 variants. Early lenses were matched to a specific camera, but all of the LTM Elmar lenses produced from about 1931 to 1959 should work on your IIIf. From about the mid 1940s, Elmars were coated. There are tables available online which will enable you to match the serial number of an Elmar to a particular year of manufacture. In good condition, either the Summicron or the Elmar should provide you with excellent pictures from your IIIf. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted December 1, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 1, 2015 The short answer is pick the one in the best condition. Look for the obvious (dents,oil on aperture blades, scratches,haze or fungus) and use a strong flashlight to look through the lens. If they are in similar condition then it's about lens speed and operating controls. The Summicron is a more modern design with the aperture ring near the front of the lens plus you gain a maximum of 2.0. If you plan on using your camera indoors quite often this may be a better choice. The Elmar makes the IIIf truly a pocket camera. If you are looking for a compact lens then the Elmar can't be beat. You would be limited to a maximum of 3.5 but there are enough modern high speed films to help make up for this fairly slow lens. Look through the forum and you will find many photos taken with both of these lenses. Each lens has many fans and there will surely be more postings from members with more knowledge than me. Hard to go wrong with either choice, good luck and welcome to the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted December 1, 2015 Share #4 Posted December 1, 2015 Having owned both, I think you would be fine with either, although you might be pleasantly surprised by your Industar if it is in good shape. A couple of years ago I foolishly sold my early collapsible Summicron, as I hadn't been using it much (I had a V4 I was using on my M4 much more often). I really liked the rendering of the early Summicron for some shots and occasionally missed it; when I came across a red scale Elmar of similar vintage, in good shape and at a good price...I gave it a try, and now it is my most frequently used Leica lens on my screwmount bodies, M bodies, and often on my M4/3 body. I have read Putz's analyses for both lenses, and if I was going by that alone, I would probably still choose the Elmar 3.5. But as I said in the beginning, I think you would be well served by either lens...just get the one in the best condition at the best price and then go have a blast! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 1, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 1, 2015 Just to add some points, many originally uncoated Elmar's were coated later in life, as colour film became more commonplace. So you may well find an earlier 'uncoated' lens which is in fact coated! The best Elmar is the later 'Red Scale' version, coated and a slightly modified design. It's a tad better optically although the difference in my experience is slight. The Elmar on a lllf makes such a great compact package, with the lens collapsed when not in use it's hardly more than the width of the body and you can fit the camera in a coat/jacket pocket. Yes the aperture ring is a bit fiddly, and you need the A36 clamp on filters (if you want to use filters), but Leica also produced the later style f3.5 and f2.8 5cm Elmars in screw mount although they're less common. The later f3.5 is the same lens as the Red Scale. The Summicron is of course a stop or so faster the the Elmars, but it is a bigger/heavier lens, although still small and light compared to most other types of cameras! It's all relative. Either the Elmar or Summicron will give excellent results and as said the main consideration should be the optical condition of whichever lens you consider. You can't make a wrong choice, but personally I think there's something particularly nice about the combination of lllf and 3.5 Elmar as a set. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 1, 2015 Share #6 Posted December 1, 2015 Golden rule for owners /users of a Leica screw Mount : A GOOD ELMAR IS ALWAYS A SMART BUY, period. A collapsible Summicron in really fine conditions is not so easy to find... front element is delicate, coating was fragile... my advice is to take a good Elmar (postwar, so better if red scale... but better a really fine black scale than a so-so red scale) and when you really, in case , will like to have a luminous 50... search for a Summarit 1,5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl170 Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted December 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for all the input so far. IIRC, The Elmar is from about 1938 and the summicron is from about 1952. Don't know if this information is of any use, or makes any difference. The Elmar has been described as having good clear optics, the summicron has some very fine scratches on the front lens. Regards Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2015 Share #8 Posted December 1, 2015 ... Leica also produced the later style f3.5 and f2.8 5cm Elmars in screw mount although they're less common. The later f3.5 is the same lens as the Red Scale. ... Never seen a Screw-Mount Elmar 3.5-50 ltm in the later design of Elmar 2.8-50 (ltm M39 or M) or Elmar-M 3.5-50. Do you have a picture of that Elmar 3.5-50 with the better aperture ring? Should be a seldom and expensive collector's item. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 2, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Never seen a Screw-Mount Elmar 3.5-50 ltm in the later design of Elmar 2.8-50 (ltm M39 or M) or Elmar-M 3.5-50... I'm even not so sure it does exist (apart some odd "out of range" item.. Always possible)... I have seen an Elmar 50 3,5 Screw Mount # 1.428.xxx... one of the last batches... and is a std. Red Scale A36 mount Edited December 2, 2015 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 2, 2015 Share #10 Posted December 2, 2015 I have a 50 f2.8 in thread mount so just assumed that the f3.5 later version would also have been offered in LTM - my mistake! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted December 2, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 2, 2015 I have a 50 f2.8 in thread mount so just assumed that the f3.5 later version would also have been offered in LTM - my mistake! James that is not much clear for me what do you mean ? Thread mount = LTM for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted December 3, 2015 Share #12 Posted December 3, 2015 I found a reference when the IIIg was launched (about 1957) that the Elmar 2.8 was offered as a new design for the IIIg, and might be available for other models later. So the 2.8 was a last gasp for the LTM cameras. With sales fading they didn't go back and update the older 3.5 design. The Elmar 3.5 for M mount was styled like the 2.8 version, however, and had the "red scale" optics. I have both, and the 3.5 is a bit better than the 2.8. (But it was using a 2.8 50 Elmar on an M2 that lured me into Leica.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 3, 2015 Share #13 Posted December 3, 2015 … The best Elmar is the later 'Red Scale version … you need the A36 clamp on filters (if you want to use filters) ... Or you can use the 19 mm Waltz screw-in filters that will also allow you to change aperture without removing the filter. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted December 3, 2015 Share #14 Posted December 3, 2015 For a given price, you should get an Elmar 3.5 in better condition than a Summicron. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 3, 2015 Share #15 Posted December 3, 2015 James that is not much clear for me what do you mean ? Thread mount = LTM for me I think James means that has an Elmar 50 2,8 LTM ("new" style... E39 filter mount) and he thought that also the 3,5 existed with that style (it does, but only in Bayonet Mount). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 3, 2015 Share #16 Posted December 3, 2015 Yes that's what I meant. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 4, 2015 Share #17 Posted December 4, 2015 Hello Everybody, Leica Thread Mount (LTM) is 39mm diameter X 1mm pitch. E39 is 39mm diameter X 0.5mm pitch. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl170 Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted December 7, 2015 Well, the Elmar will have to wait until after Christmas as I need to direct funds to other things. The Industar Lens arrived today and I rushed off to fire a few shots in the last of the daylight. It was a really miserable misty day too. Really just to make sure the IIIf was working (no light leaks etc). These were processed and scanned by my local supermarket in 1 hour. Anyway, here is a sample: I was down at a Riverside park and found it bizarre that someone would come all that way down to graffiti something. Regards Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 7, 2015 Share #19 Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Hello Carl, Welcome to the Forum. Nice photo. Don't forget to get a rigid lens hood for protection of each lens (Industar, Summicron, Elmar, etc.) from inadvertent impact or unwanted contact in general. A rigid lens hood sometimes also reduces flare from light from sources outside of the angle of coverage of the lens. Which IIIf? Earlier or later? Enjoy your new camera. Best Regards, Michael Edited December 7, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 7, 2015 Share #20 Posted December 7, 2015 I was down at a Riverside park and found it bizarre that someone would come all that way down to graffiti something. Regards Carl It's probably foxes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.