Minimum shutter speed to avoid shake with S +70mm

[Jon Warwick]

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The S's high megapixel count + flawless 70mm lens shows up any flaws in technique it seems -- I found camera shake to be much more likely to occur on the S compared to my M240, for example.

 

I've got pretty steady hands too, and can manage 1/15th with OK results on rangefinders.

 

But I used an S-E / 006 at 1/125th, and many of the shots were not critically sharp (at all) when enlarging to a big size. Many showed some blur at large sizes, in fact.

 

Is there a consensus for what is the minimum shutter speed you use when handholding an S + 70mm to

 

(i) make sure there is no visible camera shake at all, and

(ii) to ensure a level of IQ for very large prints where you'd reckon you couldn't do any better on a tripod? (or maybe, regardless of shutter speed, you find the S is ALWAYS sharper on a tripod when being ultra-critical of resolution capture?)

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Manolo Laguillo]

If 1/125th sec is not ok, then use 1/250th sec...

 

Ok, this is not the answer you want, of course, but I've found that shutter speed [bTW, why is it called 'speed'? it's time!] of 1/250th sec to be safe enough.

 

Sometimes, when working with the S on tripod and with cable release and longer exposures, there is a lack of sharpness, due to the camera's mirror.

It is therefore a good idea to activate the 'Mirror Up' function beforehand.

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[albireo_double]

another vote for 1/250s, with the 70mm

[albertknappmd]

As a general rule, I have found that the lowest shutter speed is about 3 times the focal length so, yes, 1/250 sec is what I would recommend.

On another note, the large mirror does cause loss of sharpness so you should either use mirror lock up with a shutter release wire or  use 2 or 12 second delay (which automatically activates the mirror lock up) when on tripod. I am told that the mirror slap on the 007 is milder but given the requisite size of the mirror, I am sure that I will still advocate both of these strategies while on tripod.

Albert

[aibley]

Jon, thanks for this post. It confirms the need in my situation(slight hand tremor) to see the 006 as a tripod only camera even in good light, and possibly the same would apply to the 007.

[topoxforddoc]

This week - S(006) & 70/2.5S - 1/30th handheld

 

It's not bad

 

[pico]

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Is there a consensus for what is the minimum shutter speed you use when handholding an S + 70mm

 

It depends upon displayed size and viewing distance.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jon,

 

Mechanical "M" cameras are the basis of the "1/focal length" guide for determining an appropriate shutter speed in certain situations. when comparing a mechanical "M" camera with an "S" camera there are certain things to take into consideration:

 

A mechanical "M" camera has a shutter lag of 1/50th of a second.

 

It does not have a mirror to move.

 

It does not have an autofocus to engage.

 

It does not have an auto-diaphragm.

 

These are factors that partially determine handholdability.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[pico]

A mechanical "M" camera has a shutter lag of 1/50th of a second.

 

That can't be right, Michael, unless we have a different idea of what shutter lag is. Lag is the time from when the shutter is triggered and shutter activation. An M7, for example, has a shutter lag of 12ms (3⁄250s).

 

Correction welcome.  I'm tired.

Edited December 2, 2015 by pico

[mwilliamsphotography]

Steady hands with a bigger/heavier S is different from steady hands with a smaller/lighter M. Plus, size of hands has an effect.

 

Usually, a bit heavier camera helps ... but there comes a point of diminishing returns, depending on one's over-all strength ... and frequency of use that builds specific muscle strength related to hand holding a camera like the S. For example, 6 to 8 hours of shooting weddings for years with a Nikon or Canon Pro camera prepared me for working spontaneously with a S.

 

A few other aids also helped: I use a hand-strap on all DSLRs including the S. In addition, it is wise to not push the boundaries of hand-held shutter speeds with the S because cheating doesn't work IF the objective is the pixel peeping acuity the S system is capable of. Keep in mind that the S files are quite big, so at more common print sizes and viewing distances, the image can look razor sharp even if it has a bit of motion blur when pixel peeping at 100% on a computer screen.

 

A mono-pod doesn't hurt if the circumstances allow it.

 

- Marc

Edited December 2, 2015 by fotografz

[SaW]

I would rate my success ratio to 7/10 with the 70mm @ 1/125e. With the 120mm macro it falls to, let say, 3/10 @ 1/125e.

Using 1/250e is very safe with the 70mm but, for me, 1/125e is doable.

That was with the S2.

The hit rate with the S007 seems to be better. There is something with the mirror damping and the shutter button that, combined, gives less blur at low shutter speeds. I would definitively use 1/125e with a 70mm on a S007.

The S007 by the way offers a great Iso option, you can choose 1/f but also 1/2f or 1/3f for auto iso if you want to play it safe. The future is wide open

Edited December 2, 2015 by SaW

[Guest chipcarterdc]

I can routinely safely handhold it at 125th if shooting slowly and deliberately. If shooting fast, I prefer at least 250th.

 

Side note: my 11 year old daughter somehow managed to handhold my S007 with the 100mm mounted (heavier and front-heavier than the 70mm) and get a rather sharp picture of our cat at 1/60th.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Pico,

 

I don't know about an M7 with its electronically controlled shutter but with mechanical M's (ie: M3, M2, M4) the lag is 20 milliseconds = 1/50th of a second.

 

Interestingly, with a Leicaflex the delay is 50 milliseconds = 1/20th of a second.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited December 2, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht

[Agent M10]

This might help:

 

[Deliberate1]

This might help:

 

Very instructive. Thanks.

David

[skimmel]

I wonder if using a handgrip would help get steady shots at lower shutter speeds. Anyone with experience with that?

[John McMaster]

I think the battery grip on my S2 helps with stability.

 

john

[skimmel]

Thanks John.  What about the wrist strap? Any experience with that?

[John McMaster]

I wrap the neckstrap around my right wrist, there is also the wrist strap on the S2 grip. I have it in such a way that I do not need to grip the camera, the straps hold it tight enough.

 

john

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I'm in the 1/125 group for the 70mm and 1/500 for 120mm....I have also had good results at 1/60 with the 30mm

With tripod and cable release I can manage 2 to 4 second shots with any of the above  :)