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Leica M60


kaikeong

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Hi!

 

Do you think the Leica M60 special edition is a good choice for investing as collectible item? It is a brand new set. I checked eBay and most of the set selling there are used item, selling for US$17,000/-. This brand new set offered to me is going for US$14,000/-. There are only 600 sets worldwide. Let's not talk about whether I can afford but rather this investment in 12 years time will be a good value.

 

Please advise.

 

 

 

kaikeong

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Whatever about the FTSE, investing long term in current or recent Leicas, including limited edition sets, is risky. You would need to wait and see how the value of such items moves over time. Older collectibles have had the advantage of time for value development, which can be tracked through auction results, ebay and sites like Collectiblend and are, therefore, a safer bet from an investment perspective.

 

William

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I doubt it can be a good investment... or, to precise better my view, it COULD be :

 

- A tentative of short term (2-3 years) with low margin

- A hope in a VERY long one (20 years, say) with lot of uncertainesses (around Dollar, USA, World, life... :) )

 

For 14K$, I think that less risky and more satisfactory investiment (speaking of Leica gear, of course) can be made on some niches of the classics which are now in a rather neglected status (a long explanation to make... but having followed for years the market, it's clear that you have "waves", probably driven by big dealers, which one can try to capitalize onto...)

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Having spent a career in investments, collectables is a risky area unless you can effectively spread your risk among a variety of items significantly different from each other. Additionally, I always considered collectable cameras to be especially risky as the market is quite thin. Now if you want it merely as a collectable, not particularly as an investment, that is a different issue.

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I don't think it is anything like rare enough to be valuable to a collector in the future. Being digital, it is unlikely to be something that a photographer will want to buy (to use) in 10-15 years time. It might have cult status but all that means is that it'll be worth a bit more than a comparable camera of the same specification/vintage. By all means buy it, but buy it to use today.

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There's no way you will increase or even equal your investment... If 599 of the 600 are paperweights and yours is working maybe add 2-3% to your investment.. The FTSE or a CD would be a wiser choice... The camera is really just a marketing ploy...

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Well, stocks have been known to drop by 50% from time to time, or even become worthless. The difference is that this is not a risk, but a certainty with a digital camera.

The value will steadily decline to next to nothing over ten years, when serviceability runs out. The fact that this is a special edition may modify the curve a bit, but that is all.

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Something tells me, there must be a Full Moon!! - I bought the M-P240 Safari Kit (35mm Cron) - even with only 500 as per Leica's sales pitch there is no way it is an investment.. The saving grace is that it was nearly $2k less than buying the camera & lens separately..

Plus of course I can Chimp if I want!.. Now back to making money....

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Churning out multiple series of "collectibles"  may be a good way of raising annual sales.

 

There is, however a difference between the deliberately produced "Collectors items" and the equipment which over time has become desirable. The latter may include scarce objects like short series items, or kit which no one thought of keeping once it became outmoded. It can also be technological milestones, curious designs or simple mistakes.

 

The deliberately created  scarce models are sold at high prices at the outset. Discovered scarcity, together with the rest of the collectibles may have, but need not, have started with a high price. Collections of decorative art, stamps, cars, usable instruments and so on depend on enthusiatic markets. Some participate because they appreciate beauty, design and the genius of the creators, some even use whatever can be used.

 

Once markets become more public, buyers also enter in order to massage their egos or to store wealth.International trade can be advantageous, but then customs and sales-taxes may be a barrier. Given the recent currency movements, those not dealing in USD might have had a short term hedging option, and those who now hold the more valuable currencies can gain. Usually, however, the spread between buying cost and sale price will only give short term profits to those who are both knowlegdeable and lucky.

 

If you look at the Westlicht auctions,or at some of the collectable German, French and Swiss products on the net, you will see some single high-price items and a lot of medium-priced ones.  I would guess that an investment focussed collector might lower risk by not sinking a large sum into one object, but rather get a number of medium-priced, well regarded objects . Whether this imitation of "index linked" investments provides a better gain than index-linking to the wider global economy remains to be seen.

 

p.

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And I thought that giving valuation advice was not permitted. The original request is not so far removed from a 'My father has left me a ….  can you please tell me what it might be worth ...'

 

But now even the mods join in and start offering actual advice as to what it will be worth in the years to come ?? 

 

If you want to consider investing in Leica, study the WestLicht Auction results over the last several years where definite good returns have been possible in certain sectors. 

 

Also note that nobody has mentioned the probably inevitable 'dead pixel syndrome' and the risk of more than a few having been affected in ten years time.

 

Now await the inevitable flack and excuses :)

 

dunk

Edited by dkCambridgeshire
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And I thought that giving valuation advice was not permitted. The original request is not so far removed from a 'My father has left me a ….  can you please tell me what it might be worth ...'

 

But now even the mods join in and start offering actual advice as to what it will be worth in the years to come ?? 

 

 

 

Not the same at all Dunk, but I suspect you know that really. 

 

I often wonder about those 'I just inherited a Leica' threads, are they scammers hoping for a direct offer to buy their rare collectible, or are they simply looking for a free advert? 

 

As for the M60, given how many Leica users out there are seemingly so desperate for a digital camera without the LCD, they should be rare as hens teeth! Price is hardly a barrier for the keen. But it seems they're lingering around looking for buyers……...

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Not the same at all Dunk, but I suspect you know that really. 

 

I often wonder about those 'I just inherited a Leica' threads, are they scammers hoping for a direct offer to buy their rare collectible, or are they simply looking for a free advert? 

 

As for the M60, given how many Leica users out there are seemingly so desperate for a digital camera without the LCD, they should be rare as hens teeth! Price is hardly a barrier for the keen. But it seems they're lingering around looking for buyers……...

 

 

James the OP is seeking investment advice and asking for a valuation in 12 years time; seeking valuations is dealt with in Andy Barton's post

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77695-inherited-a-leica-trying-to-find-a-valuation/?p=819165

 

Does it ,or does it not, state : 

 

"We usually delete requests for valuations "

 

OK it's a request for a future valuation … whether or not he will see a return on his $14K outlay … it's still a valuation request.

 

 

 

dunk

Edited by dkCambridgeshire
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Dear Dunk

 

You are, of course, correct that we should not give valuation advice. There are many reasons, including legal ones, why we should not do this. In this case, however, there was a generic issue about buying relatively recent cameras or sets as an investment proposition. I believe it is reasonable to express an opinion that any item which has been recently issued or marketed is a risky purchase from an investment perspective as compared to older items which have had a 'value trail' built up over time. The same could also be said about collector's items in other fields such as watches, paintings, pottery etc. I believe there is general consensus in respect of the advice given on the forum on this matter. I have not seen any advice as regards a specific valuation figure in this case.

 

William

Edited by willeica
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Let's not talk about whether I can afford but rather this investment in 12 years time will be a good value.

 

I don't normally do this, but for you I went 12 years into the future and I'm sorry to say that you were not there.

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The rule on not hosting speculation on the present value of specific items, which one has not even examined closely, is a good one. Violating it might flood the forum and probably not be of much use to the neophyte collector. A question not about specific numbers, but about the first derivative of the future value curve of a specific object is a borderline case, unanswerable except as conjecture and should in general not be encouraged in this part of the forum.

 

A general discussion of collecting versus investing, -which I tried to contribute to a few posts higher up, should, however, be welcomed. Although under its own heading rather than the cryptic one it has now.

 

I look forward to admins changing the heading.

 

p.

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