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Homeless in London


elmarman

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I saw this man under Tower Bridge, London as we came up the stairway on our way to the River Thames South Bank but he was very 'Camera-Aware' so did not snatch a photo -- then on our way back across Tower Bridge much later he was asleep and no other in our Group of Camera Club friends had noticed him, so I took a frame to finish up the outdated Agfa Scala 200 film I had loaded in my 1986 M6 + 1966 Canadian 35mm f1.4 Summilux at full aperture and I think 1/15th second and got a dense enough neg to print to 16x12" Exhibition size on Ilford Multigrade Glossy IV, and when I entered it into my Club Print Comp I got FIRST Award !!

 

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In any club that I would be a part of, this shot would have disqualified you.

 

It doesn't deserve any kind of positive recognition whatsoever in the realm of "street photography," or any other type of photography from my perspective.  There are billions of these shots on the internet and they all suffer from the same poor taste and bad judgment.

 

I'd venture to say that it only shows your weakness as a "street photographer" in that you can't find anything better to shoot than a sleep helpless impoverished person.  Hell - you weren't even good enough to shoot this person when he was awake!

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At least the homeless man didn't know that you exploited him. Or maybe go back and give him a framed print he can hang up one day if he ever gets a home?

 

 

In any club that I would be a part of, this shot would have disqualified you.

 

It doesn't deserve any kind of positive recognition whatsoever in the realm of "street photography," or any other type of photography from my perspective.  There are billions of these shots on the internet and they all suffer from the same poor taste and bad judgment.

 

I'd venture to say that it only shows your weakness as a "street photographer" in that you can't find anything better to shoot than a sleep helpless impoverished person.  Hell - you weren't even good enough to shoot this person when he was awake!

 

This seems a bit harsh. As in the law, intent matters. There is no evidence of ill intent here, either on the part of the photographer or his club. I certainly don't know the circumstances, nor do our honoured commenters. I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the photographer, without making unwarranted assumptions as a basis for foregone conclusions.

Edited by Michael Hiles
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Michael - there are no nuances for me here.

1. The subject is a homeless person who did not consent to be photographed

2. The OP made clear that he was fully aware that the subject would not have consented

3. The OP the boasted at how he nevertheless continued to pursue the subject, this time finding him even more defenseless

4. Then the OP boasts that he won an award for all of this

This has no place in the street photography fold, for me

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I would put it less harshly, there is no need to mob the OP. 

To begin with, the photo is well executed. No complaints there.

 

Otoh, the critique on the subject is valid. Without context, this type of photograph is not something I would take myself or encourage others taking. Had it been in a context, like a reportage on social conditions in London, with the intent of raising public awareness of the plight of homeless people, for instance, it might have been fitting.

 

My advice to the OP would be to  put his work into such a context and to interact with his subjects, gain permission, and maybe make a friend.

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I would put it less harshly, there is no need to mob the OP. 

To begin with, the photo is well executed. No complaints there.

 

Otoh, the critique on the subject is valid. Without context, this type of photograph is not something I would take myself or encourage others taking. Had it been in a context, like a reportage on social conditions in London, with the intent of raising public awareness of the plight of homeless people, for instance, it might have been fitting.

 

My advice to the OP would be to  put his work into such a context and to interact with his subjects, gain permission, and maybe make a friend.

Hi Jaapv - I agree with everything you've said and commend you for how you said it.  On reflection, the one change that I would make to my post is to replace the word "the" with "then" in the 3 point.  :ph34r:

 

I have taken many photos of the impoverished in NYC.  But I make it a policy to not only ask for permission BEFORE shooting but also to offer compensation to the subject.  Like you said, making a personal connection with these people can be very mutually beneficial.  You get to hear their stories and as a result feel grateful for what you have.  They get a chance to have someone to talk to, which serves as an outlet for them.  

 

I will go one step beyond your niceties and demonstrate with the below examples the results that can be achieved through the use of this etiquette.  ALL subjects depicted consented to being photographed in advance  (even Mr. McFadden, in the B&W near the Canal street subway stop, who is actually very sweet and agreed to let me and our fellow format Sharookh take photos of him for a few minutes last summer) and most received some form of payment (even what we might think of as nominal) 

 

At some point, my collection might get strong enough to form the basis of a series to be more publicly displayed...

 

 

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A sincere happy Thanksgiving to all (and viewing these photos again makes me feel thankful even more...)

 

Adam Miller

Edited by A miller
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I do not intend to be cute or funny when I suggest there is an invisible homelessness that is worthy of text and photographs. It occurs in various forms: the common sheltered, those who live in the woods in primitive shelters, even the fellow I met who is a poorly employed local delivery man who lives alone full-time in a shabby single-room motel. Homelessness is also a state of mind - for some of the destitute and resourceless being homeless is the last proud freedom they have - accepting help is a loss they will not have.

 

One group to learn of are the homeless US veterans. One tragic characteristic of some is that they went into the military to find a home, a purpose, food, clothing or a respite from some mental issue and the military regulated all their needs. Once discharged they were lost without direction, many of them physically injured besides.

Edited by pico
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I would suggest that Adam's photographs are essentially different from the original ones. His give his subjects an identity, the first one has taken it away. I should think you would prefer the former for your interesting suggestion, Pico. And yours is a good example of a context.

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OK to expand on my previous comments, this was apparently a one off snapshot which the OP admits he took because the subject was asleep - he seemed intimidated to take the photo earlier when the subject was 'camera aware'.

 

Now I'm the first one to defend the rights of street photographers, and the principle of no privacy in a public space, but there are some boundaries.

 

I wouldn't go to a children's playground to take candid photos for example, for obvious reasons, even though it's perfectly legal to do so.

 

The homeless in situations like this should be afforded some right of privacy - it's not like he has too much choice but to be where he is.

 

I wonder if I'd get pissed off with some guy taking my photo if I was homeless - and yes I'm sure I would!

 

Maybe if I was approached before or after and given an explanation, and offered some help (money) I'd consent. Maybe just having a chat would be enough.

 

It seems that the OP took the photo because the homeless guy just happened to be there, asleep, and it was easy/safe to do it. He then tells us about the praise he's had by winning a competition so he's benefitted by that persons misfortune.

 

Sorry but I can't see this as anything other than crass exploitation.

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The OP read to me like an excerpt from Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, giving excessive detail about extravagant

luxuries acquired whilst showing indifference to lesser humans. Elmarman is evidently an enthusiastic photographer.... I hope he is also young and wise enough  to learn from the criticism here.

 

Adam Miller's super work above sets exactly the right example. 

Edited by bill_murray
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The numerous comments -- and I imagine they will continue -- are overwhelmingly negative and justifiably so. And let's be honest -- the OP's commentary is like a red rag to a bull.

 

But let's avoid mob mentality here.  There's merit in having these debates, but a witch hunt is not a debate.

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IMHO..

We've seen images of Muslim women requesting "Please No" but the photographer chose to go ahead..

People Sleeping or doing or Not doing a million different things,,, I've even done it myself.......  When the red mist of the shutter awakens, we go ahead.....

One thing I have learned, we cannot help or change some peoples lives... I chose a Charity and contribute on a regular basis.. It's a sad reflection of to-days world when a homeless persons photograph is taken with a multi thousand dollar piece of photographic equipment.. Offer Everyone the Dignity you want them to Offer You.

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I won't comment on what's already been well covered above.

Just an observation (without any implied meaning) that the sleeping guy in the OP is sheltered in a corner with not one but two CCTVs for company just above his head.

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I do not shoot the homeless, children, and the Amish.  When I encounter them, I slowly point the camera away so that they know I'm not shooting them from the hip.  Last summer, I saw 3 photographers with big zoom lenses run after an Amish couple near a train station.   The predators were hunting the prey.      

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Children depends on your location. In developing countries they -and their parents- will often beg to have their photographs taken.

Even here, outside the Anglosaxon sphere, attitudes are  a bit more relaxed.

Once again, a matter of communication, intent and attitude.

 

 

 

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I included the last one as it sparked a similar discussion on the German forum. Context: he wanted his photograph taken, got a print next year when I visited his school again.

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Blimey !! I got many MORE comments here than I ever get on the PENTAX USER forum  ! I must use my  Leica more often ! After 64 years in photography I don'y worry you say -- I put it on -- I contributed the the Forum and mostly Yanks replied -- it is different in London -- you will get punched even if you 'offer' a print -- anyway they are nearly all illegal immigrants who should not have come to UK anyway . 

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I often wonder whether certain of the threads on the forum are made up by the forum's administrators in order to stimulate participation by forum members . I must say that this thread has piqued my suspicion. The OP's comments are just too nonsensical.

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