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Leica M (Typ 262) - Reduction to Rangefinder Photography (at 1000 € less)


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Both the Leica forum blog post specs list and the user manual on the Leica website state only sRGB, that's all I know. So, either a typo has made it's way to the manual or there is a serious crippling of the most basic features. Let's hope for the former.

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A really big step would be electronic frame lines calculated according to the postion of the focusing mech, showing always exactly what the sensor would capture....

 

Not sure I get what you are saying.  The RF or EVF frame lines displayed by my M240P seem capture exactly what the sensor captures.

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I like the LV/EVF options of my M240P for wider angle scenarios; and happy to have them available when needed.  I have very little interest or use having video available in a still camera; if you want video, buy a video camera.  Lastly, 80g lighter is less than 3oz, I can't really see how this could be any sort of factor in the decision making process.  I think we all can figure out how to reduce the weight of our bags by 80g elsewhere.  I'm quite happy with my M240P and  would not change the purchase decision I made less than 2 months ago.  

I agree. I can very much understand how the new model might appeal to some, but I personally would not give up live view and an EVF since it does expand the range of lens I can use.

 

Price wise, I purchased a Safari combo, where the body + 35 cron cost me 1000 less than if purchased separately. In that respect, the Safari set is a great deal, you get a MP-240 for the price of an M 262. You just have to like green, and need a 35 cron. 

 

But it is a great move by Leica, it brings more choice without diluting the M or taking away resources from R&D on a new version of the M.

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For me, no desire to buy this with already my M240 and M246.  But I like the idea getting back to basics and lighter weight.  Would be a buyer if was back to size of M6 or darn close.  I know I have been overly favoring the EVF lately.  I wouldn't mind a camera that would ween me off of it!  I dunno......maybe I might be a buyer yet and trade in the 240.  Or wait for the real next M.

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This is the key to the whole thing.

 

Until we see what the new M will bring (not this one announced today) it's impossible to know whether the M line has an interesting future.

 

I hope and expect it has but other plausible interpretations are possible.

 

I agree. It's interesting comparing the positive comments here on this release. Looks like a good move for Leica. There seems to be a permanent future for this camera, with basically nothing changing at all in future models, other than sensor and processor upgrades. No confusion over what the camera has to offer, or what it will be in the future. 

 

The next question will be, what of the M(240) replacement, and will it crowd the SL?  I think this is a minor consideration. The real concern in the long run will be if the M262 outsells the premium M. There has to be a real possibility that people see their choice as SL or M262. 

 

Further enhancements could simply be dealt with by the a la carte programme ...

 

Aluminium is the German/Dutch spelling.

 

Aluminium is also the English spelling, provided it comes at the start of a sentence. 

Edited by IkarusJohn
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It looks good! I suspect that M 262 introduction signals the end of M-E production. Which makes sense to me: Why would Leica want to keep producing the older, outmoded technology camera forever? yeah, yeah, the CCD vs CMOS debate. Having had both, I have to say I couldn't care less one way or the other. I get better results out of my M-P than I did out of my M9, and it's a ten-times more responsive camera—that's what matters to me. 

 

I also like the introduction of "a la carte" M typ 240 options. If I didn't already have the M-P, that's what I'd take advantage of to get exactly what I wanted. As it is, though, the M-P is almost exactly what I'd order (I might do without the video capture mode since I have almost never used it) so I'm quite happy with what I have.

 

For new M buyers, and for M8/M9/film M owners who want a new digital body, both these announcements should be great news. 

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Color space only sRGB? is it a typo or is it correct? if it is correct....hmmm....not so good  :(

robert

 

Hi Robert! 

 

I can't say that sRGB vs sRGB+Adobe RGB is really much of a big deal. Adobe RGB (applied to JPEGs) is only useful if your workflow is to produce JPEGs for editing. The vast majority of users I know and talk to either try to get everything just right in camera and do very minimal editing if any at all, or just work with raw files where the colorspace choice is established when doing raw conversion (and you have far more flexibility). I haven't set a camera to Adobe RGB since about 2006, when LR made working with raw files and JPEGs equally easy. 

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This is the second "minimalist" M camera in about a year from Leica, the other being the M-A film camera. I could do without video, for sure. Not quite so sure about live view.

 

I notice the memory buffer is reduced down to 1 GB (from 2 in the M240) in this new camera. Given how cheap memory is these days, I wonder why they did that. Maybe market differentiation.

Edited by AAK
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This is the second "minimalist" M camera in about a year from Leica, the other being the M-A film camera. I could do without video, for sure, in a film camera. Not quite so sure about live view.

 

I notice the memory buffer is reduced down to 1 GB (from 2 in the M240) in this new camera. Given how cheap memory is these days, I wonder why they did that. Maybe market differentiation.

 

I think the standard M typ 240 has the 1G buffer and the M-P typ 240 has the 2G buffer. I wonder if that's an a la carte option ... ?

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Maybe Leica can get this thing down to the size of the M2 someday.  I can dream, right?  Imagine walking around with that with a 35 cron in your coat pocket!  Add to it a sleep mode that kept the electronics awake just enough to be ready when the release is touched.  

 

Pull camera out of pocket... raise to eye... press shutter release... Bam!  That would be a street shooter!

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In my mind this is clear:  The M line going forward will be spit in two.  And, there is good reason for this.  

 

If, Leica had continued the M line by adding features found in the Q and SL, Leica would have in essence turned the "essential" M experience into a ever more complex experience that very much is not the "essential."  But, on the other hand I am certain Leica was conflicted as to what new advancements in technology to add to the M without changing it so much that it was no longer appealing to why many users choose the M.

 

Clearly the new M will have two lines.  Classic(Leica mis-named the entry level) and Premium.  

 

The Classic can continue to take advantage of better sensors and electronics, hopefully smaller and lighter.  Next version may utilize a smaller batterytwo different models to help make it a smaller body and lighter.  Why use a huge battery if there is no LV?

 

The Premium will receive all of the additions from the SL technology, such as better video.  Also, the Premium will find a better EVF from the Q or the SL.  Who knows, maybe it will become an EVF-RF hybrid.  Leica could feel unencumbered to add any new technology it wanted and some users would love it and others wouldn't see the point and would be happy with the Classic.

 

I see this as win-win.  Great for Leica and even better for users.  Bravo Leica.  I hope Leica, going forward, will make the two lines even more distinct and the M-Classic even more essential.

 

Rick 

I'm not convinced by this. I don't see the two versions diverging to the extent of different body formats developed in parallel. I don't see much difference from the M9 - ME comparison: this is the new ME to the next M240 replacement. Essentially future ME/M262 equivalents will be the previous version repackaged or simplified. This is a good thing if it allows Leica to respond to all the grumbles of the previous two years in an easy way, as they've done here. The only new technical element they've added is the shutter cocking mechanism, which may have been a spinoff from the SL R&D. No new processor or sensor. 

 

Foretelling the future is a fine art. I'm just a 6 year old when it comes to fine art.

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 There has to be a real possibility that people see their choice as SL or M262. 

 

 

The SL, in my opinion, is quite a different tool than either the M240/P or M262; the choice would be deciding between a hammer and a sledge hammer.  At Photo+ Expo I had change to play with the SL, it's essentially a mirror-less platform with autofocus and EVF in a DSLR body and feels that way.  It's about 175g heavier and physically larger in the hand.  The SL Lenses are massive relative to the M lenses, which adds to the bulk of this platform. Using the SL with my 35Lux FLE was more or less the same as using it with my M240P+EVF2, in terms of operation..i.e. manual focus and focus peaking.   I can't see a street photographer using the SL for street work at all.  I'd expect we will continue to see an M Premium option that brings in some of the SL benefits like LV/EVF, so those who want these options within the compact footprint of the M platform have that option.

Edited by MT0227
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100g weight reduction: Great

1000 euro price redution: Great

Even quieter cocking mechanism: Great, but the original was already very quiet

Loss of Adobe RGB: Bad but not a deal breaker

 

And I'm glad they apparently realized that calling it the M-E 262 might lead to some misunderstandings. :p

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Not quite - I think the M262 is a permanent offering, with only sensor and processor upgrades.  For Leica, no more grumbling about EVF, video or anything else. The viewfinder is perfected, the lenses there. What more does an M photographer need?

 

I think it is brilliant and it assures the long term future of the M.  It really doesn't matter too much what future versions of M are released.  It will sell like hot cakes. 

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100g weight reduction: Great

1000 euro price redution: Great

Even quieter cocking mechanism: Great, but the original was already very quiet

Loss of Adobe RGB: Bad but not a deal breaker

 

And I'm glad they apparently realized that calling it the M-E 262 might lead to some misunderstandings. :p

 

It's worth using DNG, then Adobe RGB really doesn't matter. 

Edited by IkarusJohn
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In my mind this is clear:  The M line going forward will be spit in two.  And, there is good reason for this.  

 

Clearly the new M will have two lines.  Classic(Leica mis-named the entry level) and Premium.  

 

The Classic can continue to take advantage of better sensors and electronics, hopefully smaller and lighter.

 

The Premium will receive all of the additions from the SL technology, such as better video.  Also, the Premium will find a better EVF from the Q or the SL

 

I see this as win-win.  Great for Leica and even better for users. 

 

Rick 

 

Yup

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The SL, in my opinion, is quite a different tool than either the M240/P or M262; the choice would be deciding between a hammer and a sledge hammer.  At Photo+ Expo I had change to play with the SL, it's essentially a mirror-less platform with autofocus and EVF in a DSLR body and feels that way.  It's about 175g heavier and physically larger in the hand.  The SL Lenses are massive relative to the M lenses, which adds to the bulk of this platform. Using the SL with my 35Lux FLE was more or less the same as using it with my M240P+EVF2, in terms of operation..i.e. manual focus and focus peaking.   I can't see a street photographer using the SL for street work at all.  I'd expect we will continue to see an M Premium option that brings in some of the SL benefits like LV/EVF, so those who want these options within the compact footprint of the M platform have that option.

 

The whole point about the SL is it is a different tool.  That has been the underlying reason for M camera aficionados angst. Meanwhile, sounds like the SL is selling well ...

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