Deliberate1 Posted November 17, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Friends, the UPS guy delivered a box to my office last week. It contained an S (006) body. I bought it from the very nice folks at Leica Miami. While I assumed that it would be in pretty good shape given the certified status, I could not have imagined the cosmetics. Brand new. Not a scratch, rub mark or any other indication that the camera had ever been put into service, or was ever taken out of the box. Even the bottom plate was free of any scratches that are the inevitable result of using a tripod. It came packed as if new as well. All the paperwork, cables, strap, battery, charger, etc. Indeed, the only indication that the camera may have been opened were a couple creases in white exterior box that housed the camera jewel box. I wonder if this was a "store queen." Needles to say, very happy. And the deal made it even better. Many of you were kind enough to respond to my "M9 to S" thread, for which I am grateful. Franky, I never thought that I would find a body that made sense for me to buy. I am a very serious photographer, but my work is largely for my own pleasure, and does not pay the bills. Four years ago I bought an M9 for $6200. I paid about $300 more for the S, with the warranty - well less than what I was seeing on Ebay for bodies in very different conditions, with no warranty or provenance. I think it is a rather good time to get one of these if you have a mind to. By the time the warranty expires, I will be looking for a similar S 007 sample. Remarkable to think you can buy one of these bodies, in new condition with the full warranty, for less than-one third of the release price. As good as it is, the camera is not much use without a lens. Miami Leica offered me a good price for the 70mm, which I was inclined to buy. But given the cost of native lenses, and thinking ahead, perhaps that is not the best choice. With the M9 I have the 50mm Lux, 35mm Zeiss, and 90mm Elmarit M, which I use in that order. Probably the 50mm - 50%, 35mm - 40% and the 90mm - 10%. I will use this camera as I do the M9, in a very versatile way. It will stay in the car and accompany me on travels as well. No studio work as I do not have a studio. I appreciate that it suffers the same low light limitations as my M9. I will likely shoot it as I do the M - setting thhe ISO at its practical max (on auto), set f to max open with shutter speed at 2x focal length, and then recapture as much as possible in post processing. I am hopeful that with the quality of the files, there will be more to work with than the M9. I know Leica makes the pricey Contax adapter, and that there are some lovely lenses that can be used with full function. I have read with great interest (thanks Dirk) about the 80mm/2 which is highly lauded, as is the 120mm. These lenses can be had for a fraction of their Leica equivalents. And I like that there are markings that would permit hyperfocal focusing - something that can not be done with Leica S lenses (?). Simply put, I could populate my quiver with at least two Zeiss lenses with the adapter for a fraction of the cost of the cheapest Summarit - the 70mm. Naturally, the Zeiss glass has a different look. The 80mm is particularly interesting, though the look has been described as a "novelty" by at least one owner. Price aside, the Zeiss are not water secure, which could limit its use. Though the idea of exposing this camera to the elements will take a bit of emotional preparation. So, please feel free to tell me how you populated your S quiver, and why, and in what order. Couple of accessory questions. I have looked at the right angle finder and wonder if it would be worth having. In particular, it would help to stabilize the camera if you could park the body against the chest, look through the right angle and shoot. I also found my Rollei 6008 to be far less frightful to subjects if I used the waist finder. Think the right angle finder would have the same effect? And what about the micro-screen - many say that it greatly aids manual focusing. As always, appreciate the help. I am very excited to see what I can do with this beauty. David Edited November 17, 2015 by Deliberate1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 Hi Deliberate1, Take a look here New to S - requesting lens advice. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest chipcarterdc Posted November 17, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 17, 2015 My thoughts: (1) Definitely get the ground glass focusing screen. You'll be doing yourself a big favor. (2) I have the right angle finder. Useful for shooting still lifes on a tripod, but I do not by any means find it to resemble using a waist level finder. (3) When I bought the 006 (recently upgraded to the 007), I also bought the 30-90 lens, figuring if I could only afford one lens at the time, it might as well be the most versatile one. Subsequently added the 70mm. Next up was buying the Contax adapter and reconstituting my Contax lens lineup from back in the day. Started by buying the 80mm (actually had to buy a whole Contax kit to get the 80mm: seldom do they pop up for sale on their own); then the 120mm; then the 140mm. Yes, the Leica 70mm and Contax 80mm are very close in focal length and fairly close in aperture, but they function differently. The Leica has faster AF than the Contax; the Contax has a very different look than the Leica. Not necessarily "better": indeed, technically, I'm sure it's "worse" as measured on a lens sharpness chart. But I don't shoot lens charts. . It's a different look, and I like both it and the Leica. I don't think of the 80mm as a "novelty" at all: I've produced some of my favorite images with it, on both digital and film. Will try to post some images from it on the Leica S when time permits. Next up was the 100mm Leica and 180mm Leica. With patience, I found great used deals on all of lenses above, with the exception of the 100mm. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chipcarterdc Posted November 17, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 17, 2015 By the way: implicit in your question is whether one could be content with the 006 and Contax adapter without having any Leica lenses in the kit. I myself would not be. Also, as of last weekend when I was in town for a visit, the Leica Store Soho in NYC has a used Contax adapter in stock for $895, which is less than half of what it costs new (as it happens, while I have no affiliation with them whatsoever, that's the same price and the same place I got my adapter from a year or so ago). If you're looking for one, I suggest you snap it up. (I almost bought it myself to have a backup...) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted November 17, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 17, 2015 Is start with buying THE 70mm it's a great lens and comes down to a 56mm lens with the 0.8 factor. The 80 will be a 64mm lens equivalent meaning in my eyes it's no longer a standard lens like a '50'. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted November 17, 2015 Chip, I am obliged for your kind replies. I too would stretch for the zoom but am concerned that it is slower than the primes, and gets mixed reviews. What has been your experience with it. I ask because your second purchase was the 70mm which is covered by the zoom. Compare the two at the same focal length? If I got the 70mm, I think my next would be the Contax 120mm which gets universally high marks and is a fraction of the Leica iteration, even with the cost of the adapter. What has been your experience with it - good enough so that you do not want for the Leica 120mm? What do you think of my idea that the right angle finder could help to stabilize the camera. Instead of holding the camera out with your arms, you could brace the body against your body. Thanks again. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted November 17, 2015 Also, as of last weekend when I was in town for a visit, the Leica Store Soho in NYC has a used Contax adapter in stock for $895, which is less than half of what it costs new (as it happens, while I have no affiliation with them whatsoever, that's the same price and the same place I got my adapter from a year or so ago). If you're looking for one, I suggest you snap it up. (I almost bought it myself to have a backup...) Just called. Someone was quicker on the draw.... David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chipcarterdc Posted November 17, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 17, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) You're welcome. When time permits, I hope to write a more extensive review. For now, though, here's a link to a little write-up I did a while back: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=102849.msg843804#msg843804 Contains images from the zoom, the 70mm, the 100mm, and the Contax 120 Makro. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted November 17, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 17, 2015 I bought first the 30 mm. Couple of weeks later came the 70 mm. And then a 45 mm Pentax 67 with the Zörk Shift adapter. Recently I added the 30-90 Vario-Elmar, which is for my needs THE lens for the S. The 30 mm has become redundant: its IQ is for me nearly the same as the one delivered by the 30 mm single focal lens. The 70 mm, an awesome lens, is a must have, IMHO. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted November 17, 2015 Manolo, thanks for yours. The zoom is very tempting as the most versatile lens in the quiver. Other than the expense, my concern is its speed which is considerably slower on the long end than the primes. Perhaps that is less of an issue with the 007 which has higher practical ISO. Have you found that to be limiting with the 006, if that is what you shoot? And how would you compare the IQ of the zoom vs the 70mm at that focal length. And I mean with large prints. Obliged, David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted November 17, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 17, 2015 All lenses in the Leica S system are phenomenal optics, choose your favorite focal length, there isn't any weakness optically. The wides have no equivalent optically. The adapted lenses require additional steps but are well worth it, except Hasselblad C series lenses that required too much work and mostly have marginal optics, the Contax versions of the Zeiss' are quite good. Colors from the Mamiya lenses are just okay, they are sharp, really really cheap, small and easy to use, the 200mm and 300mm Apo continue to be excellent on any camera. Concerning the focusing screen, the standard is exceptionally good, the af indicator is accurate with adapted lenses, focusing 120mm and 180mm can be done easily with the excellent shimmer of the screen. The split screen offers the advantage of accurate focus but for me it didn't perform any better than the standard screen using a combination of methods mentioned and I missed the Af marks of the standard screen. Congratulations on your new camera, there's two types of people, those that have an S and those that want one ;-) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted November 18, 2015 Congratulations on your new camera, there's two types of people, those that have an S and those that want one ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted November 18, 2015 Share #12 Posted November 18, 2015 I'm glad you were happy with the "used" 006 from Miami. My experience with them has been superb. Given the M lenses you used, I would recommend you start with the S zoom given you do not seem to need CS lenses. I first used it on an S2. then an 006, now a 007. Yes it is slower than a prime, but unless you are doing portraits where you want limited depth of field, you will be shooting at higher f stops to get more DOF. If you are shooting in the dark, then you need a 007 more than a fast lens. I say this as a shooter that before this zoom, always used primes, but then with an M there were no zooms. I started with the S 35mm, then the S120, then the S24, and finally the zoom. Never got the 70. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted November 18, 2015 I'm glad you were happy with the "used" 006 from Miami. My experience with them has been superb. Thank you Mr. Bond. I shall pass your thoughts on to M and Q. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 18, 2015 My two cents, which may be all it's worth given that I don't own an S (but have played with it). But if I did, the key reason would be for the lenses. Camera bodies come and go (you're already talking about the next generation and you haven't even used your first one), but lenses make the system. And, for me, weather sealing would be a significant differentiator, apart from any IQ issues. If I couldn't afford S lenses, I'd rather buy the Pentax 645Z, but that's me. As far as focal length, it's the same old story...buy what suits your shooting preferences, not based on forum surveys. I'm sure Leica Miami will allow you to test drive (ask about their program). Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted November 19, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Manolo, thanks for yours. The zoom is very tempting as the most versatile lens in the quiver. Other than the expense, my concern is its speed which is considerably slower on the long end than the primes. Perhaps that is less of an issue with the 007 which has higher practical ISO. Have you found that to be limiting with the 006, if that is what you shoot? And how would you compare the IQ of the zoom vs the 70mm at that focal length. And I mean with large prints. Obliged, David You are welcome. The 70mm S fixed length lens is OUTSTANDING, from wide open, and into the corners of the corners. No comparison in this regard with the 70mm from the Vario-Elmar 30-90 zoom. But the zoom's 70mm quality in the corners is ok in most cases, for instance when the scene is really 3D, the image's two bottom corners are in the foreground, and therefore blurred. When using the longer focal lengths of the zoom (70 to 90 mm) I would say that 85% of the image is really sharp, as if it would have been made with the equivalent fixed focal length lenses. Between 30 and 60 mm the zoom behaves in an awesome way in 100% of the image, I would dare to say. The 70mm is much smaller and lighter than the zoom. But the zoom is in a nice balance with the camera, no doubt. I keep the 70mm because it will be a must in reproducing and copying, for instance. Edited November 19, 2015 by Manolo Laguillo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted November 19, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 19, 2015 When using the longer focal lengths of the zoom (70 to 90 mm) I would say that 85% of the image is really sharp, as if it would have been made with the equivalent fixed focal length lenses. Please give us a little bit more detailed descritpion about this: in what circumstances you "loose" against the fixed lenses, which aperture, is it only sharpness or also other things (distortion, transition, contrast, color...)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted November 19, 2015 Manolo, many thanks for your observations. They will be very helpful for anyone interested in making a very considerable investment in this lens. While it will remain on my dance card, I just purchased a 70mm demo lens from Leica Soho. It is essentially a new lens but can not be sold as new because it was fondled by some lucky folks at Photokina. Price was one third off the regular retail and comes with full warranty. Have to say that there is little reason to buy this gear used on Ebay when you can get it from Leica. I paid less for a basically new camera from Leica Miami with a three year warranty than virtually every used S 006 body i saw on Ebay during my two month long study of the market. Same with this lens as well. Thanks for the unequivocal endorsement of the 70mm. It should be waiting for me at my office when I get there today. I have the S body in my car trunk and am very much looking forward to pairing them this afternoon for my first shots. Happy shooting. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted November 19, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 19, 2015 For me the zoom is like the MATE on the M, a solid performer but does not produce the 'sparkle' of the best prime lenses (M, obviously any prime S ;-)) john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted November 19, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Please give us a little bit more detailed descritpion about this: in what circumstances you "loose" against the fixed lenses, which aperture, is it only sharpness or also other things (distortion, transition, contrast, color...)? I can compare the 30-90 only 'against' the lenses which I have, the 30 and the 70... But I can deduct facts when I look at pictures made with the zoom at 30, 45, 60, 75 and 90 mm. There is no loss of quality from 30 to 60-70 mm. There is some loss of quality at the corners from 70 to 90 mm. The 30mm and the zoom at 30mm are for me in the relation of 10 to 9 (10 is the fixed focal, 9 is the zoom). I have made my tests photographing a map (150 cm x 100 cm) pinned to the wall. I don't worry about distortion, contrast, color, because it's always excellent, IMO. ... The differences between the 30mm fixed focal and the 30mm zoom can quickly disappear if shooting handheld: when working at 1/125 or longer a tripod or similar is a must to extract from this equipment all the quality it can deliver... Edited November 19, 2015 by Manolo Laguillo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted November 20, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 20, 2015 The 30mm and the zoom at 30mm are for me in the relation of 10 to 9 (10 is the fixed focal, 9 is the zoom). Thank you for your input! There is some loss of quality at the corners from 70 to 90 mm. So is it possible to say the zoom is about XY% of the 70/2.5 between 70 and 90mm...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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