A question about infinity focus M6 + summarit 35mm

[rpavich]

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Just a question about my M6 and Summarit.

 

I either never noticed or I never had a lens/camera combination do this so I thought I'd ask the pros.

When I focus on something very very far away (Like an airliner at 30,000 feet for example) the viewfinder says it's not in focus when the lens is slammed all the way to infinity, but just a degree or two right before infinity.

I'm not sure if this is normal or not, I can't remember any lens or camera ever doing this, but then this is the first 35mm summarit I've had and the first time I've used a fully CLA'd Leica camera also.

 

 

[TomB_tx]

I haven't noticed this with my Summarits, but I test focus at near to mid ranges where it is more critical for me.

I have had an M4 camera come back from CLA with the RF off both at infinity and in vertical. After a trip back and forth with the response that it met Leica specs (but was still slightly off vertical), I instead sent it to DAG, and it came back perfect.

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[rpavich]

I haven't noticed this with my Summarits, but I test focus at near to mid ranges where it is more critical for me.

I have had an M4 camera come back from CLA with the RF off both at infinity and in vertical. After a trip back and forth with the response that it met Leica specs (but was still slightly off vertical), I instead sent it to DAG, and it came back perfect.

Hmm....well, I sent mine to Sherry so it's likely that it's correct also. I had taken a few shots yesterday and developed them (though nothing scientific) and they seemed accurate for focusing.

Edited November 14, 2015 by rpavich

[spydrxx]

Well, there's probably several potential issues here. The first and most probable one is that the viewfinder needs just a tweak of alignment. I routinely check and readjust, as needed, all of mine (Leicas and other RF bodies) twice a year - as some are quite sensitive to any sort of shock, like bumping against my body on long or vigorous hikes. However, I should mention that some lenses, notably many long telephoto lenses, are constructed to slightly focus past "infinity" because of expansion of the elements and housings in heat. For the most part it is irrelevant as there is often sufficient latitude in the sensor/film to accommodate negligible differences at long distances...but it can be annoying. A less common issue, as a third situation, is if the photographer has uncorrected or less than fully corrected astigmatism,  the vf images might not appear to perfectly line up, even though they would for corrected vision. I encountered this situation a few years ago, and discovered it only after a lengthy couple of discussions with the tech who CLA'd a body for me.

[rpavich]

Well, there's probably several potential issues here. The first and most probable one is that the viewfinder needs just a tweak of alignment. I routinely check and readjust, as needed, all of mine (Leicas and other RF bodies) twice a year - as some are quite sensitive to any sort of shock, like bumping against my body on long or vigorous hikes. However, I should mention that some lenses, notably many long telephoto lenses, are constructed to slightly focus past "infinity" because of expansion of the elements and housings in heat. For the most part it is irrelevant as there is often sufficient latitude in the sensor/film to accommodate negligible differences at long distances...but it can be annoying. A less common issue, as a third situation, is if the photographer has uncorrected or less than fully corrected astigmatism,  the vf images might not appear to perfectly line up, even though they would for corrected vision. I encountered this situation a few years ago, and discovered it only after a lengthy couple of discussions with the tech who CLA'd a body for me.

Well, hopefully it's not that it's misadjusted since I just got it back from a full CLA!

 

I do notice that my astigmatism does cause problems during focusing though...I  hate it. I'm getting Lasik in December because I HATE wearing glasses and trying to see framelines through the viewfinder.

[rpavich]

Well, I developed another roll after having done a lot of long distance and near test shots. I took a shot of the obligatory "scale at 45 degrees from the film plane" and lots of distant telephone poles and things and it seems that things are working fine. No focus shifting at any distance.

Thanks for the replies, I feel a lot better.

[spydrxx]

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A couple of years ago, I had Youxin Ye CLA a Canon P (LTM body) and lens for me, including cleaning the rangefinder. When it came back everything was crystal clear...but the object I use as an infinity marker for my RFs (a tower about 1/2 mile away) was ever so slightly out of focus at the infinity setting on the lens. I called him and asked if I should adjust the infinity marker on the lens and he told me that the lens was properly calibrated, although he had occasionally been asked by others to do something similar because of minor issues with (non-Leica) mismatches/manufacturing tolerances of particularly eastern European camera bodies and lenses. His suggestion was that because of the potential for my body to have been jostled in the postal system to have caused minor alignment issues, to merely adjust the RF (and he told me exactly what to do), or if I wanted to return it to him and he'd check it over. I somewhat hesitatingly gave things a try as he suggested, developed the film, and all was well and has remained so for over a year. As I mentioned above, some of my RF bodies seem to get pretty well jostled by me in the course of the year, so I periodically and gingerly touch them up and I'm a happy camper again. Another unanticipated skill set added to my inventory.

[rpavich]

I just shot another 10 shots and checked them out...perfectly fine.

This is Caleb scowling at me through the Circle K window this morning.

[rpavich]

Well...I emailed Sherry about this and she said that it shouldn't be this way. Long story short, the camera is going back to her today.

When I get it back again, I'll report about it.

[gbealnz]

Darn, but then again, no sense if it's not right.

Gary

[robert blu]

 

... I routinely check and readjust, as needed, all of mine (Leicas and other RF bodies) twice a year - as some are quite sensitive to any sort of shock, like bumping against my body on long or vigorous hikes. ...

 

I do not walk in a "vigorous" way   just normally but I have to calibrate the RF of my M7 very oft. Since last time I only used the camera twice, 6 films in total. Now it's again out of alignment.

 

You are the first saying you need to calibrate the RF twice a year  (I know it's an M6, I guess the RF is not so different than the one of the M7). 

 

I'm confused, are Leica rangefinders "so" delicate that even walking can cause a misalignment ?

 

I starting to think to give up and sell my M7 because tired of this problem, I do not trust anymore my camera   which is a joy to use when everything is ok!

 

robert

PS: sorry for the rant...

 

 

 

[TomB_tx]

Curious - I've used an M4 since 1968, and added an M6 in 1985, and an M9 in 2010 - all bought new and used regularly. None of the RFs went out of adjustment. However, when I finally had the M4 & M6 serviced for shutter and meter issues in about 2011, both came back (from different techs) with the RFs slightly off. Once I had them tweaked correctly they have been fine since. I've also added used M2, M3, and M5 to my collections, and those RFs have been fine as well. I use them all in rotation.

I have to think some do not get the adjustments sealed or locked tightly enough, as all of mine have been fine.

I did pick up a used Zeiss Ikon ZM (which I like a lot) and the RF arrived way off. I adjusted the infinity setting (which was quite loose) and that brought all correct. That mechanism seems less rugged than Leica.

[rpavich]

Post adjust report:

 

Sherry re-adjusted it and now, since I had my lasik, I think that it was a combination of possibly mis-adjustment and the issue of my glasses never lining up correctly at the finder.

 

I've developed several rolls since this post and everything is great with the camera. it's butta smooth, the focus is spot on and I couldn't be happier now that I can see the frame lines without moving my head all around the viewfinder.

[spydrxx]

Robert - to respond to your question....not often, but occasionally, the RFs need periodic tweaking - nothing major. The Leicas are no more delicate in this respect than other range finders of similar manufacturing eras....but because of deteriorating vision, my eyes have become inelastic and no longer adapt to minor changes - so to avoid visual frustration, I like to ensure things are properly tuned spot on. But yes, I am a fairly vigorous person when I'm out shooting and my camera bodies do get lightly banged around, and because we are dealing with older mechanisms, mirror/prism mounts, and the like, the RF mechanisms may exhibit a sensitivity to shock. I don't obsess over it, but just to avoid the aggravation of grabbing a body to go out shooting and find a slight tweak is needed, I do a routine preventive maintainance.