Enbee Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 12, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello - I shoot with an M-P 240 and 50 Lux Asph. Even at 1.4 and ISO 2000 - I am unable to get photographs that are not shaky - usually the shutter speed is between 1/2 and 1/30. Yesterday we had a celebration at our house and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to capture this event due to low lighting. Most photos were unusable even after post-processing. I was thinking of buying a flash and wanted to get some thoughts. 1. Whether getting a flash is a good alternative or is there something I can do with the camera settings that would help me capture photographs indoors. 2. If flash - which flash should I buy? Thanks, N Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Enbee, Take a look here Indoor Photography and Flash Suggestion. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Manoleica Posted November 12, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 12, 2015 Baffled:- A Leica user asking these basic ?'s -- http://digital-photography-school.com/5-tips-for-consistently-good-photos-indoors/ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enbee Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks- the reason I ask this question is - I have seen these questions pop-up time and again. People suggesting that we should avoid using flash when required. This is a new area for me - something that maybe basic for you - may not be so basic for someone else. It is just gauging some answers from people who have faced similar situations in the past - that's about it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted November 12, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2015 I use flash all the time with my M9 when photographing indoor family events. My M-240 arrives next week and I expect to need to use flash with it as well. Bad lighting results in bad images regardless of body or lens. I don't find direct flash to be particularly useful since it tends to produce hard shadows and overexposed faces. Bounced flash can produce wonderfully soft and even lighting. I have the Leica SF-58 for when I want to use TTL flash metering. I suspect the new Leica SF-40 flash will also be M TTL compatible. Most of the time I prefer using the flash set to Auto mode and that opens the door to many other brand flashes. My other camera is a Nikon and my SB-800 and SB-25 flashes work perfectly on my M (in Auto mode). Since I almost all of my shots are in landscape orientation the small Nikon SB-22 flash, which tilts only, is a particularly good match for the M. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted November 12, 2015 Share #5 Posted November 12, 2015 If I'm specifically trying to avoid using flash, I"ll set the ISO to 1600 and shoot at f1.4 1/60s and then push the exposure in RAW. Otherwise, I use my SF-24D with the M240.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted November 12, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks- the reason I ask this question is - I have seen these questions pop-up time and again. People suggesting that we should avoid using flash when required. This is a new area for me - something that maybe basic for you - may not be so basic for someone else. It is just gauging some answers from people who have faced similar situations in the past - that's about it. I would certainly up your ISO setting.. use your self timer and set the camera somewhere stable (table, chair, bookshelf) .. have you tried using an external exposure meter? Are you shooting jpeg or DNG? -- after taking the test images write down the exif info on a pad...those images that are ok, check off the details on your pad, for future reference........ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted November 12, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 12, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would certainly up your ISO setting.. use your self timer and set the camera somewhere stable (table, chair, bookshelf) .. have you tried using an external exposure meter? Are you shooting jpeg or DNG? -- after taking the test images write down the exif info on a pad...those images that are ok, check off the details on your pad, for future reference........ At the shutter speeds he's talking about that's not going to work. Even a two stop ISO push and a tripod will still put you in a place where subject movement will create blur. To the OP: There's nothing wrong with using flash on a Leica. The "Leica's aren't supposed to be used with flash" thing that some prattle on about is rubbish. If that were the case Leica wouldn't have put a flash shoe on the camera. Low light is often also bad light and there's nothing wrong with improving the quality of light, especially for important stuff like family. It's mostly that until recently most TTL options for Leica were severely crippled. The SF58 is huge on an M (I can only use mine with a grip added) and the SF26 (and older 24) have no swivel (at least the 26 has bounce), no FEC, no auto or adjustable manual mode and are ludicrously expensive for what they are. The new SF40 (a Nissan i40 clone) will address all of these except the price. That's the flash you want and it will be available soon. I expect that a lot of Leica shooters will become more open to flash photography once the SF40 is available. Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enbee Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted November 12, 2015 I always shoot RAW.. I will try your suggestions so I will know the sweet points. The only issue is light is something that I cannot control most of the times.. Thank You for your suggestions. When will the SF40 be available? I see that it will be out soon - is there a date available for it? Can I buy the Nissan i40 instead will it work on my 240? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 12, 2015 Share #9 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Hello N, Welcome to the Forum. Always ask questions. The presence of people who are willing to answer other people's questions is 1 of the major benefits of this Site. Hand holding cameras at slower shutter speeds & getting good photos is a learned skill. Many people would say that it is hard to take a good quality hand held photo at a shutter speed slower than approximately 1 over the focal length of the lens in use. Regardless of the ISO. This means: With a 50mm lens the minimum shutter speed that is easy to get a good hand held photo with would be 1/60th of a second. I would add that it might be possible to still get a reasonably good hand held photo at 1/30th of a second or even slower if you are willing to practice. Just like playing tennis makes a tennis player a better player: Practicing holding the camera, focusing the lens & releasing the shutter in a variety of situations will make a person better able to take a better photo. The more you practice the luckier you get*. Another alternative which has fallen out of fashion in the recent past but which often produces very nice photos is: A small solid table tripod with soft, non-marking slippers, topped with a large ball head & a strong cable release. A small solid tripod, as above, is very useful against a wall (soft, non-marking slippers) in or above a doorway, against a rock or a tree, in a car with the engine off & even on a table top. Against my chest it gives me + 2 stops of stability which means I can have the sharpness at 1/8th sec that I have at 1/60th sec without the tripod against my chest. The more you use it the more ways you will find to use it & the quicker it will work together with the camera as a unit. Folded up to carry it doesn't take much space & is easy to carry in a pocket or elsewhere. A small solid tripod, as above has been so useful that I have mostly given up using a full sized tripod in most situations for many years. Best Regards, Michael * The more you practice, the more things you don't need go away, leaving you with a mathematically smaller group of remaining alternatives. The smaller the number of alternatives you have to deal with, the greater the proportion which are beneficial, therefore: You have less poorer alternatives which makes it easier to do things correctly which makes you mathematically "luckier**". ** more likely o be successful. Edited November 12, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted November 12, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) That is indeed a very low light. Even if you get a non-shaky(or without movement blur) picture, the colors are not going to be vibrant with that light at that high ISO. You can try bumping ceiling to 3200 and get by but if it not sufficient then you have no choice but to add light (extra lamps or flash). I bring in extra floor lamp in the room where family members will be there. This way I avoid harsh shadows from flash and I have the freedom to move as well. If you do want to add flash then this is what you can do (I have tried it and it works): - Get wireless trigger for the flash. Generic will do. I used Phottix PH89230 Ares Wireless Transmitter with success. - Get some kind of flash diffuser. An umbrella is best but it takes up too much space and is not suitable when family members are moving around. I got "RoundFlash Beauty Dish Collapsible Softbox" which is smaller and diffuses more than the simple plastic diffuser on the flash. Of course you can bounce the flash too if there is a choice (depending on the height of the ceiling). - Put the flash in a corner away from the camera. - Try to balance the flash with ambient light by experimentation. Switch to manual shutter speed and flash level. Balance by experimenting. - This will give you a general area in the room which will be lit by the flash+ambient light and will give you some freedom to shoot by handheld camera and move around. - If you get excited by your success then add more flashguns firing wirelessly. I have very old light trigger which fires a flash when another flash light falls on it. Very simple setup which I can place anywhere.All this works but I hate it since I don't like flashes getting fired as family members are trying to have a good time. To me this is all antithesis to using M.This is why I simply bring in extra floor lamps instead of using flash. Lastly, I am assuming you are processing DNGs and not shooting jpeg. Edited November 12, 2015 by jmahto 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enbee Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted November 13, 2015 Thank You Michael - those are very valuable suggestions. Thank You for reminding me about the smaller tripod - that's something I had read about when I started using the camera but totally forgot about it. I will look to getting one and you are absolutely right about practice. I will look for the small tripod. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enbee Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted November 13, 2015 Thank You so much jmahto - I think to get it all together I will need to understand it all. I will do some more research on the things that you mention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 13, 2015 Share #13 Posted November 13, 2015 Your walking a round a family event and you want to do a few pictures,nothing fancy a few simple snaps and you want to use your Leica.....The room lights are just too low to stop people mulling around, smiling, chatting and drinking....or children having fun at a party Have you looked at the SF26 flash a hefty $345.00 price tag Set your ISO around 1600 where you use the light in the room Bounce the flash against the ceiling (This assumes the ceilings are 8 or 10' ) And adjust the power so as to just "fill in" this assumes the ceiling is white color and you want color photos Thats it Truth be told for me $345 was more than I wanted to spend....so I bring out a Nikon 610 and a SB800 flash @TTL...now I have auto focus too ......and I can throw the camera under a table and enjoy the party too Sadly I use my M240 for other things I bought the 240 because I hate using the Nikon but there are some things other cameras do better .... simple event family photos is one of those things Now for wandering around that same room and producing "artsy" images of that event the Leica is great with available light......but you'll get lots of blurs and focus issues to get those few gems. And yes it a learned skill I some how feel this post has left me open to nasty reply's 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0227 Posted November 13, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 13, 2015 My other camera is a Nikon and my SB-800 and SB-25 flashes work perfectly on my M (in Auto mode). Since I almost all of my shots are in landscape orientation the small Nikon SB-22 flash, which tilts only, is a particularly good match for the M. I tried my SB-400 on my M-P 240; I see the flash symbol in the view finder however I can't get the flash to fire. Any ideas? How are you setting up your Nikon flashes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted November 13, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I tried my SB-400 on my M-P 240; I see the flash symbol in the view finder however I can't get the flash to fire. Any ideas? How are you setting up your Nikon flashes? Have no experience with the SB-400, but I believe it is TTL and manual on Nikon cameras, with all the flash settings (other than On/Off) done using menus in the camera. So it will be unusable on a Leica. My SB -22 ,25, and 800 flashes work just as they would on a Nikon body other than TTL mode does not function. These flashes are all controlled by settings in the flash Edited November 13, 2015 by Luke_Miller 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 13, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 13, 2015 Nikon sb800 does not work on the Leica M240....at least with the hot shoe....I read on a thread that the electronics are different and just now I tried it....no flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 13, 2015 Share #17 Posted November 13, 2015 oops I take that back sb800 does fire on Manual from the M240 hotshoe Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 13, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 13, 2015 But on Manual for family stuff the Nikon with TTL is a better choice .........for available light art the Leica is a better choice......or get the Leica SF26 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralCoton Posted November 13, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 13, 2015 things are goign to get blurred under 1/30 if the subjects are moving. if they are still, and you don't have a tripod, another trick is to pull your elbows into your sides, then exhale and slowly squeeze off the shutter. that can take you to 1/15, but otherwise you need to up the ISO or add a flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted November 13, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) oops I take that back sb800 does fire on Manual from the M240 hotshoe My SB-800 works properly in both manual and Auto on my M9 and Monochrom. I'll find out this Wednesday how it works on the M-240. Might be worth mentioning that Auto mode (auto-thyrister) is different from TTL. In TTL the camera controls the flash exposure and Nikon flashes don't support TTL on Leica bodies. In Auto mode the shooting aperture and ISO are manually entered into the flash and the flash automatically controls the flash exposure using a sensor in the flash. Many third party flashes will work on the Leica M in this mode. In some lighting situations (backlighting, point light sources in the frame, etc.) Auto seems to produce better exposures than TTL. Edited November 13, 2015 by Luke_Miller Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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