TheGodParticle/Hari Posted November 8, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Any explanation why the 246 gives out sepia toned files? It's not just a sepia display, the DNG's have a sepia tone too. Here's an example of the difference between the Mono classic and the new one. The difference is exactly the same even on the DNG's when I import into my computer. I much prefer the flat gray files coming out of the Mono classic but I do appreciate the technological advancements of the M24* platform. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Hi TheGodParticle/Hari, Take a look here Why the sepia cast?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Joakim Posted November 8, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 8, 2015 Funny you should post this now because I had a similar experience yesterday where I realized that my LCD had a stronger sepia tone than I am used to. I checked the camera while I was out but Toning was set to Off. Today when I saw your post I copied some images from yesterday to my computer to check my images myself but there is no toning when I watch them on my computer, only on the LCD display. Maybe I am just remembering it wrong or it was something with the light but yesterday the toning on the rear LCD display was very obvious and this confuses me now. Regarding your DNG being toned to, did you have Toning activated in the camera and how did you check the files? If you import the files into LR or C1 Pro or some other raw converter software then the previews should be regenerated from the raw data without any toning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted November 8, 2015 Funny you should post this now because I had a similar experience yesterday where I realized that my LCD had a stronger sepia tone than I am used to. I checked the camera while I was out but Toning was set to Off. Today when I saw your post I copied some images from yesterday to my computer to check my images myself but there is no toning when I watch them on my computer, only on the LCD display. Maybe I am just remembering it wrong or it was something with the light but yesterday the toning on the rear LCD display was very obvious and this confuses me now. Regarding your DNG being toned to, did you have Toning activated in the camera and how did you check the files? If you import the files into LR or C1 Pro or some other raw converter software then the previews should be regenerated from the raw data without any toning. Strange indeed Today the files look pretty much the same on my computer, still different on the camera display though - the M246 displaying sepia and the MClassic displaying gray. Toning is switched off. Just to make sure again, I set the hue to blue and the strength to strong. The display shows me a blue toned image. I keep the hue on blue but turned the strength off and the display is back to sepia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 8, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 8, 2015 In the JPEG files saved by the camera or created in a raw coverter, the values for red, green, and blue are identical (unless you apply toning), so any tint would be due to monitor (mis-) calibration. At least in your picture, the old display looks blueish to me while the new display appears more neutral. Some cameras support fine tuning the display colour temperature; the M does not. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 8, 2015 Share #5 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) In the JPEG files saved by the camera or created in a raw coverter, the values for red, green, and blue are identical (unless you apply toning), so any tint would be due to monitor (mis-) calibration. At least in your picture, the old display looks blueish to me while the new display appears more neutral. Some cameras support fine tuning the display colour temperature; the M does not. Agreed: the lower one (M246) looks neutral while the M9Monochrom looks too blue on my calibrated monitor. But if you look for long at the blue one (or become very familiar with it), the neutral one may look sepia tinted by contrast, but I think that's an illusion. Edited November 8, 2015 by Peter H Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Louis Marit Posted November 8, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 8, 2015 I have both and do not find a noticeably different color cast from the one to the other on either the Lcd or monitor.I use a calibrated Eizo display . Individual manufacturing tolerance issues? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 8, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) But if you look for long at the blue one (or become very familiar with it), the neutral one may look sepia tinted by contrast, but I think that's an illusion. If it wasn’t for this illusion we would all refuse to work with uncalibrated monitors, but alas, people tend to adapt to what their monitor delivers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted November 9, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Strange indeed Today the files look pretty much the same on my computer, still different on the camera display though - the M246 displaying sepia and the MClassic displaying gray. Toning is switched off. Just to make sure again, I set the hue to blue and the strength to strong. The display shows me a blue toned image. I keep the hue on blue but turned the strength off and the display is back to sepia I've just gone from MMv1 to MM 246 and the sepia look to the rear LCD preview is very noticeable to me. Definitely a slightly brown feel to images on the rear LCD. That's as far as it goes for me. I only use DNGc files, which look great, the ISO performance is phenomenal. I don't see a difference in the files beyond the obvious CCD - CMOS one. It might well be illusory, as Peter H mentioned above, though I've not compared the LCDs directly (MM1 was gone before MM2 arrived) Lucky you having both Monochroms! I should very much have liked to keep the MMv1 as well, the CCD is so pleasing, but I'm finding the M246 very liberating as a tool. You must have a difficult decision everytime you leave home, or an adequately sized bag! Edited November 9, 2015 by cron-r Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettwayneprice Posted November 25, 2015 Share #9 Posted November 25, 2015 I recently acquired a MM246 and have noticed this too. Side by side with my M240 set to B&W display the color is noticeably not neutral. Ranging towards a more brown tone cast. It seems like its not as apparent after some use but its still there. It has no affect in IQ or pictures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 25, 2015 A DNG will not have any cast, as the colour is not yet defined in the DNG format and wil only be assigned inyour raw developer. As for the two different LCDs, we have seen this before on other cameras and not just by Leica. It only signifies that different series of LCDs differ in colour rendering, just like for instance uncalibrated monitors do (and basically an LCD is an uncalibrated monitor). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica1215 Posted May 15, 2016 Share #11 Posted May 15, 2016 So is there anyway to calibrate the LCD? Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 16, 2016 Share #12 Posted May 16, 2016 Why would calibrating the LCD be important? Even with a fairly accurate colour LCD the progress of the image from capture to a final print or web posting requires many steps that rely on expectation and learned knowledge that make the LCD image only an approximation. Isn't it therefore possible to use similar knowledge to believe that the Monochrom image will be neutral in tone when it appears on your PC monitor? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernstk Posted May 16, 2016 Share #13 Posted May 16, 2016 I'm confused. In your original post you say that the DNGs are tinted, even when imported to your PC and viewed on the monitor. Then in a later post you said that they were no longer tinted. Is that correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 16, 2016 Share #14 Posted May 16, 2016 So is there anyway to calibrate the LCD? Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not on the Leica. Some other makers have a calibrating-by-eye thingy in their menu. Quite useless in my experience Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted May 17, 2016 Share #15 Posted May 17, 2016 1) monitor calibration The original Leica MM produced 14bit files. The new MM2 does produce compressed 12bit files. With certain monitor calibration setups it may be that files produced from one camera do look color neutral to the eye, while files produced from the other camera do look as having a color tint. This has absolutely nothing to do with either Monochrom camera - it is a deficit in the calibration of the monitor (and/or color interpretation of the eye). The gist is that when in darker tones your monitor does appear to have a color tint where it should display a color neutral image - the display actually clips colors that exceed it's color gamut (a deficit in calibration and/or it's technical ability to display such gamut). 2) monitor calibration wandering Monitors do need recalibration in regular intervals. Monitors do wander in their display. The one single most visible area of display fault is the actual color neutral display of tones in darker shades - often one of the first visible signs when a monitor needs recalibration. The issue with many calibration devices and software is that to get a truly good neutral representation of dark tones is very, very hard. I found after my last monitor upgrade to a self calibrating Eizo model that the quality of this neutral display has risen perceptibly (I used a Spyder device and German calibration software, which was superior to the software shipped with the Spyder sensor). 3) eyes do vary (a lot) Not only do eyes differ in color from person to person, but they do also from left to right eye! Color perception does also vary (a lot) depending on light level, light source, hydration, state of tiredness, consumption of alcoholic beverages, drugs, … Seriously - if color calibration does need a judgment by your eye, try to judge in as equal a state as you can manage each time you calibrate your monitor. The matter of the different looking LCD screens on the camera is a simple result of different screen types, materials, specification, production batches, … Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erudolph Posted May 17, 2016 Share #16 Posted May 17, 2016 Looking at the LCD of the 246, right after getting it, the sepia cast was quite noticeable. I contacted the dealer to discuss it. This was early in the delivery schedule. He offered to take it back but told me it'd be a longish wait for them to get another 246 in. I decided to keep it and am glad I did. The cast is no bother to me and has no effect on the dng files. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted May 17, 2016 Share #17 Posted May 17, 2016 Also my 246s have a warm preview on the LCD screen but on the computer the files are neutral Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted May 17, 2016 Share #18 Posted May 17, 2016 On the other hand, from the picture above, from calibrated monitor, it seems that the LCD of the MM1 is on the cold side Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted May 23, 2016 Share #19 Posted May 23, 2016 There are always variances in LCDs. You can pick up 3 iPhones and see differences in color temp between them. Calibrating the LCD of a digital camera would probably be fruitless since calibration depends on viewing angle, ambient lighting, etc. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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