Leica to rework older M lenses?

[rramesh]

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In a recent interview with Dr Kaufmann and Mr Kaltner (interview here) the following was mentioned. Interesting to read that Leica might introduce newer lenses for the M drawing from the past.

 

Q: You mentioned that the M will remain the core of the Leica portfolio. What can we look forward to for the M system, now that the SL has launched?
Kaufmann: Purity. Because the M incorporates the spirit of this company. And the spirit is between revolution and tradition. Purity and clear lense design also in the future, and we might possibly look into the lens portfolio of former days. Because I see still a few opportunities there, to create lenses for the M where you can then shoot in a different style.

 

Question: What could those lenses be?

Edited October 28, 2015 by rramesh

[michaelwj]

In a recent interview with Dr Kaufmann and Mr Kaltner (interview here) the following was mentioned. Interesting to read that Leica might introduce newer lenses for the M drawing from the past.

 

Q: You mentioned that the M will remain the core of the Leica portfolio. What can we look forward to for the M system, now that the SL has launched?

Kaufmann: Purity. Because the M incorporates the spirit of this company. And the spirit is between revolution and tradition. Purity and clear lense design also in the future, and we might possibly look into the lens portfolio of former days. Because I see still a few opportunities there, to create lenses for the M where you can then shoot in a different style.

 

Question: What could those lenses be?

 

While I hope that "look back into the lens portfolio of former days" would mean less emphasis on absolute performance, and a return of classic leica looks like the 1.4/35 pre-asph, I'm going to be more cynical. Their last statement (underlined) is about lenses that you can "shoot in a different style". Older lenses might render differently, but you're not shooting in a different style. The M240 allows live view, meaning that we can have longer non-coupled lenses, lenses that used to require a visoflex - we've already seen some of this with the new 90 macro.

 

Of course it could be a language thing, and I hope I'm wrong.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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[UliWer]

I don't think that "looking into the lens portfolio of former days" could be understood as going back to lens designs which are outdated by the present line up of Leica lenses. Perhaps there could be revivals of some lens types which have no equivalent in the present catalogue.

 

One example might be the 75mm Summilux. Another - though much less probable - the 85 (i.e 90) mm Summarex. Of course one could also think of a new 50 Elmar or even the 1.3,5/50mm Anastigmat which was redesigned for the edition of the Leica "0"-Series - though such lenses would only be collector's items.

[Mornnb]

Zeiss already does this with the Sonnar 50mm 1.5, it is a rehash of the classic 1930s optical design.

I suspect this sort of thing is what Kaufmann is referring to, perhaps they plan to rehash some classic Walter Mandler designs.

[pgk]

..... a return of classic leica looks like the 1.4/35 pre-asph .....

There is a paper from optical designers at Elcan which suggests that this lens was the state-of-the-art design, and could not have been bettered with the glass available, when it was designed. On the assumption (which may or may not be correct) that more, and relevant, glass types are now available, it might be possible to update the design but even so, without using aspheric elements, performance will probably not match current aspheric designs (which are bigger). That said, a diminutive Summilux with better wide open performance than the original pre-aspheric would no doubt attract a fair amount of interest, especially if its price was a reasonable amount less than the aspheric. Given the existence of the Summarit line up a 'new' set of 'traditional' M lenses could be an interesting concept.....

[james.liam]

The fitful transition to digital left Leica with a stable of focus-shifting lenses, an attribute that was often less or inapparent on the more forgiving medium of film. In addition, the clean Karbe 'look' is so dramatically counterposed to the Mandler philosophy that it can be polarizing.

 

So it's not that surprising for Leica to address this with a possible redesign of older classics.

[edwardkaraa]

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I personally would like to see updated M lenses with close focus abilities, sine the 70cm limitation is not valid anymore with live view.

[Guest]

I never understood why the 1.0/50 production ended.

Nor do the ones who have to pay crazy prices on the second hand market.

When it was discontinued the price was not that much higher than the 1.4/50A's.

[cirke]

a  new 75 Summulix

a 35 mm Noctilux

a 120 or 135 Summicron ...

[semi-ambivalent]

The fitful transition to digital left Leica with a stable of focus-shifting lenses, an attribute that was often less or inapparent on the more forgiving medium of film. In addition, the clean Karbe 'look' is so dramatically counterposed to the Mandler philosophy that it can be polarizing.

 

So it's not that surprising for Leica to address this with a possible redesign of older classics.

The "Karbe 'look'". This is what I so often see when looking at a copy of, e.g. LFI. Clinical perfection, in a relentlessly boring sort of way. It doesn't seem to be the subject matter either. Perhaps just a lot of people doing the same type(s) of PP, or editors with tunnel vision. It's not very conducive to demonstrating visual breadth in an artistic medium. But this is just my tunnel vision, and there's probably a lot of images I'll never see. 

 

s-a

[cirke]

The "Karbe 'look'". This is what I so often see when looking at a copy of, e.g. LFI. Clinical perfection, in a relentlessly boring sort of way. It doesn't seem to be the subject matter either. Perhaps just a lot of people doing the same type(s) of PP, or editors with tunnel vision. It's not very conducive to demonstrating visual breadth in an artistic medium. But this is just my tunnel vision, and there's probably a lot of images I'll never see. 

 

s-a

the new 50 apo summicron is a boring lens ?

[james.liam]

The "Karbe 'look'". This is what I so often see when looking at a copy of, e.g. LFI. Clinical perfection, in a relentlessly boring sort of way. It doesn't seem to be the subject matter either. Perhaps just a lot of people doing the same type(s) of PP, or editors with tunnel vision. It's not very conducive to demonstrating visual breadth in an artistic medium. But this is just my tunnel vision, and there's probably a lot of images I'll never see. 

 

s-a

 

The ambivalence (sorry, Semi) toward the older look seems to have been borne out upon the step-child Summarit line, going so far as engraving the barrel with a different font (now rectified). The 35 personifies this middle ground between Mandler and Karbe; somewhat lower contrast but no appreciable focus shift and good correction of aberrations. Perhaps the Summarit's "new clothes" and tighter build tolerance (with a tiny gain bit in speed) portends this priority shift. 

[rramesh]

I kind of like a 'M Classic' line where select older Ms are remade in as close to original specification. This could even be at a lower price point as compared to the FLEs and APOs.

[pico]

Thanks for that. A few years ago I posted the question of reviving some earlier lenses but with modern machining and the responses were  negative, saying that it would be too expensive, not profitable, but I am sure Leica will not underprice their product.

 

I wonder if Leica got the word that (in some of our opinions) Karbe's designs produced harsh results due to over-correction. There is a place for some selective spherical aberration. I have almost all the lenses I truly need, but a slow pancake 35mm would be very cool.

 

〖 I do not intend to be negative regarding Karbe's work. Somebody had to make the more perfect lenses, and it is to Leica's credit that it was they who did it. Good for Karbe. 〗

Edited October 28, 2015 by pico

[semi-ambivalent]

the new 50 apo summicron is a boring lens ?

I see lenses as useful to me or not useful, desirable or not desirable. For me a lens cannot be boring, but what I do with it can.

 

s-a

[250swb]

Question: What could those lenses be?

Leica can't be blind to the market for lenses with character rather than perfection. Cosina Voigtlander do very good business with a few very retro designs, Zeiss have the 50mm Sonnar, and there is the constant chat around the internet about dreamy this and smooth that. And not forgetting there are some places in the world where photographers place great store by character in a lens, Japan for instance.

 

So I imagine it is this part of the market that they are looking at, maybe with some uncoated designs, or pancake style lenses, etc. It would be a wonderful thing if they could supply the artist and not just the technician.

 

Steve

[luigi bertolotti]

New Thambar 

[Jeffry Abt]

...maybe with some uncoated designs, or pancake style lenses, etc. It would be a wonderful thing if they could supply the artist and not just the technician.

Pancake...yes, uncoated...yes!

This very conversation gives me hope for the M system!

Good to hear Leica reaffirm their commitment to it.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jeffry Abt

[james.liam]

Pancake...yes, uncoated...yes!

 

New Thambar 

 

Now you kids are getting crazy. Leica will leave the uncoated and pancakes to Voigtlander.

Edited October 28, 2015 by james.liam

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

Probably another 135mm lens for the M. Much more useable with the EVF.