Barnack collecting

[Wayne]

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So, I now have a IIIg and a IIIc. Which Barnack camera model is the oldest, but can still be used as a reliable daily shooter? I want a black Barnack and have considered the Model I C, but it looks like it is not that much different than the IIIC. Is the Leica Standard Model E a good choice? I do want to shoot the thing on a regular basis. 

[zeitz]

I think a Leica camera is more usable with a built-in rangefinder.  Model D seems like a better choice.

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[Antonio Madureira]

One of those, for instance.

 

Leica II or Leica III

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[TomB_tx]

I have a Standard and a III, both from the '30s. Both work fine, but the Standard is more awkward with an external rangefinder attached - no place for a clip-on meter.

The model II came out in 32, and the III in 33, so the II would be the earliest with a rangefinder. Both have the older shutter design that isn't as accurate, and can fog the edges of the film if left uncapped for long outdoors. The IIIa fixed that in 35, and is the same smaller size.

[a.noctilux]

Barnack collecting is a joy.

Using them on a regular basis is a joy or a pity, depend on what are your needs and somehow "needed result" that could be deceptive with some.

 

For dayly use, I rely on IIIf models that's small enough (beside IIIg) and with "modern for it's time specifications", like diopter adjust, x1.5 focussing, ease of loading with this added small pin in base plate, and so on.

 

I do "collect some" also (II, III, Standard, IIIc, IIIg, some "upgrade to later model IIIf", plus).

 

My last fun model is "0" Replica just to appreciate the other models with self-capping shutter and rangefinder facility.

 

Arnaud

[luigi bertolotti]

So, I now have a IIIg and a IIIc. Which Barnack camera model is the oldest, but can still be used as a reliable daily shooter? I want a black Barnack and have considered the Model I C, but it looks like it is not that much different than the IIIC. Is the Leica Standard Model E a good choice? I do want to shoot the thing on a regular basis. 

Indeed a I model C is quite different from a IIIc (a model I used a lot from 1982 to 85...  )  ... if you really want to use on a "regular basis"  the "oldest" (reasonable) Barnack, take a I model C with an Elmar 35 (or a postwar Summaron 35)  : you can focus decently without RF : the body must be checked/CLAed fine to be sure about light leaks and shutter times... after that, will be a pleasure to use.

[Wayne]

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Thanks for the responses. I have been giving this subject quite a bit of thought since my original post. The thing I am wondering about,now that I have decided to go forward with this, is what is, and is not, repairable with these old prewar cameras.....What components are considered consumable, vice repairable?

 

I figure the lions share of the camera parts are metal. So, given that they have not be too abused, most everything should be repairable by adjustment or lubrication. About the only thing I can think of that would not be metal, and therefore very difficult to repair/replace, would be optical components and shutter curtains. Am I correct in this assumption.

 

What models become strictly show pieces when the break down,? due to the fact that the possibility repair is no longer a practical reality?

 

I am leaning toward a model I or II C.

[luigi bertolotti]

Basically, all the Barnacks are repairable... provided one finds an experienced lab with a good warehouse of spares ; add also that many old lenses are dismountable rather easily and can be maintained and even the glass can be repolished... of course, the labs aren't so many, and I think their number, for obvious reasons , is decreasing... in some years, I think, it will be a matter of single passionate technicians more than "firms" (like the famous DAG in US).  As you say, shutter curtains can be one of the delicate parts : indeed, to give a CLOSE look to their surface is one of the mandatory inspections to make when one evaluates a Barnack; lens, on a model with interchangable, is less important, and the "I" models have also the relative advantage of no VF/RF ... which is another part that can be worn / dirty etc...

Anyway, should I had to choose a very old Barnack, I'd prefer a lot to buy it from a professional seller, going personally to the shop and establishing a personal contact : I mean, several Barnacks can have a good aspect, and be advertised accordingly, but being mostly collectibles, there is, even by serious dealers, more emphasis on the look than the usability.  

Edited October 5, 2015 by luigi bertolotti

[TomB_tx]

A good tech can repair the normal wear on about any Barnack model, for a price. I was given a few well-worn and badly stored (decades in a Texas attic) models, which suffered brittle curtains and very dim rangefinders. I just had the last repaired by Youxin Ye, including new curtains and RF beam splitter. The new beam splitter is a great improvement - it is now the brightest and easiest to focus of my Barnacks. Youxin's website lists his prices for these repairs. He has also worked on my Standard (Ie) and a Ic.

i also have a small collection of '50s Canon RFs, which have more variations and interesting features, but are harder to get repaired due to lack of parts. Youxin used some Leica parts to repair one of mine.

[philipus]

I use a Leica II regularly (black with chrome). It began as a I© in 1931 but was upgraded in 1950. Originally I wanted a III because of the slow speeds but in actual use (and in quite dark surroundings) I've never found that the II would have prevented me from getting the shot. I like that it is very small and that it is in its 9th decade of service, and hope I'll be able to use it for a long time to come. I only wish I knew more about its background.

[gbealnz]

I agree, the old ones can still be repaired.

My 1929 Model 1a was completely refurbished locally, by an old passionate Leica tech, and to be fair these guys are getting more and more rare.

Great cameras though, designed to be used.

Gary

[Wayne]

This is horrible!!!! Now I find myself distracted by ltm summicrons. It doesn't help that everything associated with these cameras looks and feels like a gem.

[TomB_tx]

Yes, once I got the LTMs Summicron itch it took a fair search and a few bad ones before I got a nice one. A modern lens that performs better and looks right at home is the Voigtlander Nickel Heliar f2.0. (But the Summicron is a Summicron...)

[luigi bertolotti]

This is horrible!!!! Now I find myself distracted by ltm summicrons. It doesn't help that everything associated with these cameras looks and feels like a gem.

 Aha...and if it is one from the first "historical" production batch, it's even more tasty...

 

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[ironringer]

Lovely first-batch survivor. And ... we hope that you USE your old Summicron !

 

Like all fine machinery and tools, touching it is even more pleasurable than looking at it.

[Guest]

 Aha...and if it is one from the first "historical" production batch, it's even more tasty...

 

MY_Summicron_LTM.jpg

 

 

Are there any differences between the first batch and later ones?

If one moves at some old Summicrons the aperture ring, one misses the significant clicks at the aperture values.

Were these Summicrons produced without any clicks or did they get dirty inside?

Edited October 7, 2015 by Guest

[luigi bertolotti]

Apparently no significant differences... basically, the Summicron 50 LTM collapsible has always been the same (with click stops that tend to be a bit loose) ; but the story of Summicron development, is complex, starting from the Summitar *  and the various iterations of lenses' design, depending also on available glass types... Wetzlar had just established its own glasses'lab... but for the first batches of the Summicron it wasn't yet at full capacity, so that those first items hav a glass bought from England...  add to this the issue of the "radioactive glass", the coating process till in development... and this becomes an intriguing story ... Leica collectors go crazy about all those details... so that I presently have two collapsible Summicrons... but can be that add a third one some day (and the uncollapsibles are another story, of course... )

 

 excellent article HERE : http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/50mm_Leica_a_telemetro/00_pag.htm 

Edited October 7, 2015 by luigi bertolotti

[Wayne]

Philosophically:

 

I've saved up all my money from football refereeing this fall and find myself with enough to buy a nice- additional- piece of Barnack gear. So far I have accumulated a IIIc, a IIIg, 50mm 1.5 Summarit, 90mm f4 Elmar, 50mm f2 Summar, 35mm f3.5 Summaron. I now find myself distracted by model I A, Series O replicas, and some comparably priced Leitz lenses e.g. the anniversary 35mm F2 Summicron Asph in LTM. Every time I get near clicking on a purchase of one of the older cameras, I start thinking: " I already own a couple nice old Barnack cameras, is owning an even older model really going to give me some additional satisfaction, or, am I better off going with another/different, high quality Leitz LTM lens?"

 

So, for you guys that have already gone into the deep end on this wonderful Barnack equipment, What is your experience with this type of quandary? My brains says, go with a new lens. the lure of the older cameras really pulls at my heart. Whatever I get, I intend to use it.

[new2leica]

Unless you are truly collecting, for the 1A it's cheaper to buy just the lens, Elmar or Hektor, plus you get to use it on other bodies.  If you want the experience of a 1A, if you mean what it's like to shoot without a viewfinder or rangefinder, then a C or a Standard may do.  Or even the Ic or Ig.

 

The O series a bit different as you can't (cheaply) get the lens alone.  There you get to decide if you want the first series replica or the second one.  

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[Jon Pop]

All I can say is that I love my iiig....I shoot with it ALL the time; in fact, it has re-invigorated my shooting. I have an Elmar 50 f3.5 collapsible (1949) as well as a CV 28mm Color Skopar f3.5 (excellent and very sharp lens - I'd have bought a Leica 28, but the aperture is 5.6 or 6.3....a bit too slow for me), and a 90 Elmar f4. The iiig shoots wonderfully, is a joy to use. And produces excellent results (my composition is up for a vote, but the technical qualities of the body and lens = excellent).  And, all of this " incredible difficulty loading a Barnack" mythology is just that...prep your film ahead of time, cut it properly with a template, no big deal... I can change a roll in my iiig, while walking down a street, without stopping. Peepholes are a bit of a drag for those of us with glasses in particular, but oh well.  Are Barnacks as fast as M cameras, etc....? Nope, but who cares. Wonderful machines, whichever model.  I loved my iiig so much I just bought a iiif as well! Along with a Summitar 5cm f2, which is super clean...the precursor to the wonderful Summicron.