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questions about handling film during winding onto reels.


rpavich

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I just have a general question about how scratches come about.

 

I have a few negatives that are badly scratched and they seem to be the last ones on the roll. I'm guessing that they got scratched during either me rolling the film onto the roll in the dark bag or somehow in the tank during processing.

 

Is it possible to scratch film while rolling it onto the spool in a dark bag? Is it that soft?

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During the whole process you have a chance of scratches. In the film camera when dust or sand or even a small partical is somewhere on the pressure plate.

When you have a dirty cassette in the front mouth.

Loading on the reel not carefully. But most scratches are generated on a wet film by touching the film with fingers or a film squeegee. NEVER touch a wet film surface, after the wetting agent just hang out to dry.

 

When you bulk load you have also more chance of scratches, especially when using old cassettes. Or when you forget to open the loader opening (Watson type) with AP Bobinquick not possible because this loader opens automatically when mounting the level for transport.

Edited by fotohuis
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During the whole process you have a change of scratches. In the film camera when dust or sand or even a small partical is somewhere on the pressure plate.

When you have a dirty cassette in the front mouth.

Loading on the reel not carefully. But most scratches are generated on a wet film by touching the film with fingers or a film squeegee. NEVER touch a wet film surface, after the wetting agent just hang out to dry.

 

When you bulk load you have also more change of scratches, especially when using old cassettes. Or when you forget to open the loader opening (Watson type) with AP Bobinquick not possible because this loader opens automatically when mounting the level for transport.

Thanks, I'll try and be more careful, it's really much harder than I thought it would be.

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it's really much harder than I thought it would be.

 

If your camera is clean and using clean cassettes the risk is almost zero. But as already told a wet film surface is prone to scratch very easily. When the film is completely dry the risk is also less. Then the dust problem is coming ..... :)

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If your camera is clean and using clean cassettes the risk is almost zero. But as already told a wet film surface is prone to scratch very easily. When the film is completely dry the risk is also less. Then the dust problem is coming ..... :)

I have both problems...dust and scratches but not on all frames...only the end ones.

 

Here is the worst one.

 

21125930895_7503fea885_h.jpg

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You have to dry the negatives in a dust free room, e.g. bath room. Otherwise you have above problems. When the negatives are dry you have to put them immediately in the sleeve.

I had much better results when I used the bathroom, this time I used the back bedroom closet.

 

One observation; I figured since the negatives were toast anyway I just cleaned them with water, and a paper towel, and then glass cleaner and surprisingly they didn't scratch and they were much cleaner.

 

Weird

 

Also, does it make a difference how long you let them hang?

 

The first time I developed a roll they hung over night and they looked pretty good, this time I let 3 hours go by...

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It depends on the temperature and humidity. General in Holland I hang them to dry overnight. When using destilled water in the wetting agent the result should be always clean and without stains or drying marks.

When touching the film, only on the glossy side. Some people are using a leather towel with wetting agent and destilled water or iso-propanol, but better from not.

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Well..just for fun check this out.

 

I googled "how to clean negatives" and found that Kodak recommends cleaning them with 95% Isopropyl Alcohol.

 

So....I had ALREADY THROWN THIS NEG IN THE GARBAGE. It was covered in food, soda, coffee grounds...etc.

 

I fished it out, put it on a paper towel and soaked it in IPA and wiped it down and then rescanned it.

 

I'm amazed at how well it survived and what came off of it!

 

21143692805_3d4a3cf69e_o.jpg

Edited by rpavich
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You shouldn't need to use IPA.  A simple, disciplined and consistent workflow (including cleanliness...the tools and you) should suffice.  Once you determine a procedure that works for you*, don't change it. 

 

*Everyone has an opinion on what works....with a few common themes...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6877-tips-on-drying-negatives-to-avoid-dust-please/

 

Jeff

 

 

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You shouldn't need to use IPA.  A simple, disciplined and consistent workflow (including cleanliness...the tools and you) should suffice.  Once you determine a procedure that works for you*, don't change it. 

 

*Everyone has an opinion on what works....with a few common themes...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6877-tips-on-drying-negatives-to-avoid-dust-please/

 

Jeff

Oh I know...but I was just curious. 

 

My aim is to figure out where my error is with dust and scratches and change my procedure. Thanks for the link, that should be good reading.

Edited by rpavich
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You shouldn't need to use IPA.  A simple, disciplined and consistent workflow (including cleanliness...the tools and you) should suffice.  Once you determine a procedure that works for you*, don't change it. 

 

*Everyone has an opinion on what works....with a few common themes...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6877-tips-on-drying-negatives-to-avoid-dust-please/

 

Jeff

 

I find using IPA is necessary when I don't use distilled water in the final rinse.

The reason I choose to use IPA rather than distilled water is simply because distilled water costs a lot more where I live than IPA, especially considering the amount of distilled water I would use in the rinse compared to a few drops of IPA in the final wipe. A 1 litre bottle of distilled water easily costs $10 here. A 1 litre bottle of IPA is about the same...

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Curiously, it is illegal to buy 95% isopropanol in some jurisdictions - like Nova Scotia. I have some as I have a little pull with the local pharmacy, but I use it for making a cleaning solution for vinyl records in my Loricraft, not for film.

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I find using IPA is necessary when I don't use distilled water in the final rinse.

The reason I choose to use IPA rather than distilled water is simply because distilled water costs a lot more where I live than IPA, especially considering the amount of distilled water I would use in the rinse compared to a few drops of IPA in the final wipe. A 1 litre bottle of distilled water easily costs $10 here. A 1 litre bottle of IPA is about the same...

I've heard of people rinsing with IPA as their final rinse.

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I've heard of people rinsing with IPA as their final rinse.

Decades ago I used a bottle of "Yankee film drier" (I believe mainly IPA) as a final rinse. The film dried in seconds, minimizing time for dust to adhere to the wet film. I began using it when I needed to submit reportage shots as soon as possible but continued when I lost my "clean" darkroom and had a dustier setup.

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Yes, you can use 70% IPA and 30% destilled or demi water to dry a film within a few minutes. However the drying speed can be so quickly (when using more IPA) that the swallowed emulsion, especially the soft ones can reticulate.

 

I doubt IPA 95% is illegal, normally it is for Ethanol which is the regular alcohol for drinking. IPA (iso propyl alcohol) is widely used in industry for cleaning. IPA 1 liter you can buy for a few euro in DM drogerie in Germany. Demi water you can easily make yourself with a good Brita Maxtra filter system. One filter can be used for 50-80 liter demi-water. For buying it about 2 euro for 5 liter (Metro/Makro).

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Well...unless this is a fluke, my problems are over.

 

I developed two rolls of film, left them in the tank until I got into the steamy bathroom. I unrolled them and clipped them up to dry. Then I poured foto flo down them on both sides and left them to dry for 3 hours. I used white lint free gloves, cut them right off of the clip in strips of 6, put them in an archive box (but not in the plastic holders) and am now scanning them.

 

Not one spec of dust on any negative so far and I've almost scanned the whole first roll.

 

Not one speck I kid you not. I'm as shocked as can be.

Edited by rpavich
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I am not shocked, the best result is sometimes in a very simply handling.

 

About Brita, indeed correct partial demineralised but regular tap water in Europe, especially Holland is already rather good but often to many Calcium, Iron and Mangane which can spoil the negatives and or influence the developer because some added EDTA can bound some metals but only in a limited concentration, same for the Calcium bound in Photoplex.

Boiled tap and then filtered tap water is already lowering this problem and the oxigen is then also out which is limiting the lifespan of your developer. So that Brita filter is pretty good to make good photo water.

When making your own developer from scratch you need good water unless you add above EDTA and Photoplex which is always included in any commercial developer for above mentioned reasons.

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