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Scanner statement and question


Wayne

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I have reviewed numerous posts concerning scanning negatives and scanner types/brands. I am going to start developing my own B&W negatives. I have everything I need, except I have yet to purchase a scanner. From what I read, I find that selection of brand and type of scanner has become the most bewildering aspect of my adventure into film.

 

Here is my statement:

 

I am not going to worry too much concerning the type of scanner I purchase. I figure that most any flat  bed scanner with good reviews, and from a reputable manufacturer, will produce results good enough to allow me to enjoy my images on the computer and share them over the internet. If I do discover I have created an image/negative so good that  high quality enlarging and printing is justified, the best, i.e. the highest quality, enlarging and printing would likely be attained through use of a reputable, professional lab. I do not anticipate this will happen frequently.

 

My question:

 

Does the statement represent a reasonable way to approach this scanner matter?

 

I have a propensity to chase things down various rat holes. I hope to avoid during my film processing adventure. This forum has been a wealth of assistance and information on various topics. I fear, regarding this scanner subject, I could become educated into a state of stupefication. A real danger for me.  

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My question:

 

Does the statement represent a reasonable way to approach this scanner matter?

 

 

No, if you have really read the debate over scanners you should have absorbed the fact that flatbed scanners simply cannot produce an acceptable scan of a 35mm negative except for low quality web use. To say you would farm out higher resolution scans to a pro lab then goes on to ignore the fact that you can get higher resolution scans yourself with a dedicated film scanner.

 

As the world exists using modern scanners, and without any bollocks about 'I never had a problem' or 'I find that..',  you can get a Plustek 35mm scanner for little money, this can do your high resolution scans, but while it is fast for individual scans it isn't fast for a whole roll of film because it is hand fed. So, ideally you also need a flatbed for quick digital contact sheets, low resolution scans to show what you have on the roll. So it isn't an ideal solution and anybody who tells you anything other is pulling the wool over your eyes by suggesting clunky compromises. In reality if you bite the bullet it is easy to find a Plustek 35mm scanner and an Epson V700 that comes in well under many other suggestions that you will get even to achieve just low quality scans, but you will also be in charge as well and not need to farm your work out.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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A point overlooked by newbs is that very few labs offer optical enlargement any more and those that do may be very expensive. I use one of the well known labs in the UK, they have both a Fuji Frontier and a Noritsu high resolution scanner. I much prefer my own scans, with lab scans you get the baked in tonality that the lab likes and with those lab scanners it also seems an overly sharpened result that amplifies the grain.

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 I much prefer my own scans, with lab scans you get the baked in tonality that the lab likes and with those lab scanners it also seems an overly sharpened result that amplifies the grain.

 

Whilst I have no doubt your scans are what you prefer there are labs out there that will scan to what you want and not the preset:

http://ukfilmlab.com/

http://ukfilmlab.com/ukflpro/

"Welcome to UKFL-Pro. The ‘Pro’ stands for Profile and it’s part of our free-of-charge process for tailoring scans, to help you get the look you want from your images."

 

No affiliation other than a paying customer, as I don't do C41 processing.

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Hello Wayne, 

I went through the same questions when I started to develop my own B/W...
Lot of reviews, analyis, super-ultra-high tech tests by scanner gurus... etc... I started looking to a cheap flat-bed, then to a expensive one, then moving to a dedicated, etc ... because it's not enough.., if you look for an analysis, it's never "good enough".

Then someone lent me a cheap'n'old Epson V500 ,and I manage to scan film , good enough for web and PC use... (even for watching albums in a 50" TV). I've fooled some "Image quality" snobs telling them that the scans were made with expensive models , even lab ones...

Just take a look into flickr for example, search by tag using models and ask yourself if it's enough (most of the times, it'll be...)

Quality? when I want a paper copy I move to the lab and start working with the enlarger over a good FB paper.

Cheers.

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Good or decent 35 mm scanners used to be available commonly.   They are gone as new product and used ones are no longer supported by service and /or operating systems.   flat beds have upped the game a little,  but still fall short.  So we now have cheap ones and ultra expensive ones.

 

Plustech is probably is best of consumer grade scanners and comes with decent software.   To go beyond that,  you are looking at Imacons and drum scanners that are extremely expensive have have a long learning curve.

 

Develop the film to moderate contrast which is around 10% less than manufactures recommend.   It will be suitable for enlarging with a condenser enlarger.    Diffusion enlargers need more contrast in the negative.  This is extremely important.  It is much easier to raise contrast than lower it.

 

For web sharing,  a slide copier or  backlighted copying set up  and digital camera is fine.   Decent flatbed can make up to 5x7 prints if you get a good one,  Epson 750.

 

Unless you wish to print black & white film at home,  get a digital camera.  does not need to be a Leica.   Film has already left the station and is far down the track.   It will not go away,  but is getting expensive.

 

Digital cameras are great fun & you get instant results.  A well crafted digital print can not be told from a darkroom print.

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I appreciate the comments and advice.

 

The other day, when I took my new M2 out to shoot the first roll of film I have shot in eight or nine years, I had a hard time getting over the subconcious feeling that something was missing. Batteries? Charger? Extra SD cards? I couldn't possibly be as simple as grabbing the camera and heading out the door. So simple.

 

The advice I recieved from forum members regarding my start in developing my own B&W film was fast and sure. Before long I knew what was needed, and how much to get. It is just a matter of doing it, and then getting better at it. I ordered what is needed.  It was as simple as going to B&H, punching in product names, and buying. I expect delivery today. I feel confident about it.

 

Now, with the prospect of scanning, I enter the digital realm again......................................Maybe the Luddites were/are right. 

 

I suppose I should step back, develope a few rolls or film, and determine if I am going to be any good at it.

 

In the mean time, I will take Steve's advice to "really" read the debate over scanners, and "absorb the fact that flatbed scanners simply cannot produce an acceptable scan of a 35mm negative except for low quality web use." If I succeed, It should simplify things. :)

 

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

Wayne

Edited by Wayne
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I've seen very decent-looking scans from various and comparably inexpensive Plustek models. It is all a question of the quality you want/need/can pay for. For common internet use quite inexpensive scanners will give a sufficiently good file. In fact, given the said constraint of internet use, it could even be argued that one's post-processing skills will have an important, if not determinative, effect on the end result. What this means, to be blunt, is that if the end result is, say, 1500x1000px scan, a cheap scanner will give results that are not too different from more expensive ones; competent post-processing can make up for the scanners disadvantages, naturally depending on the quality of the neg.

 

A flatbed will probably be more future-proof. I say this because, now that you've taken your first steps on the film path (a warm welcome to the club), a medium format camera is likely somewhere in the future (mark my words :). And even cheap flatbeds do wonders with larger negs.

 

Good luck

Philip

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In the mean time, I will take Steve's advice to "really" read the debate over scanners, and "absorb the fact that flatbed scanners simply cannot produce an acceptable scan of a 35mm negative except for low quality web use." If I succeed, It should simplify things. :)

Wayne

https://luminous-landscape.com/epson-v850-pro-scanner-context/

 

Is recent, in depth and covers both flatbed and film scanners up to the Imacon.

The full .pdf is 89 pages but will give you a good grounding.

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Thanks again for all the responses.

Thanks Wayne, nobody wants you to waste your time or money and many of the experiences come from a long standing use of scanners, not a quick newbie response that gets you an easy image but not something satisfying in the long run.

 

As regards the Plustek I have used the 7400 and can say that it is just one minor step below the mega expensive Plutek 120 for 35mm use and the 120 really is knocking right on the door of a drum scanner. So don't think cheaper is less, things have moved on from Nikon or Minolta ruling and charging the appropriate price for exclusivity. And as Philip has just said, a flatbed such as the V700 opens up the exciting door for medium format scanning, for which it is superb. So if you buy a Holga or a Rolleiflex in the future you would be all set across the spectrum for all types of film scanning, even 4x5! And at a quality from 35mm to large format that is exhibition quality.

 

Steve

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