33% failure rate with Leica S system

[sortvitt]

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OK, so the title is a bit tabloid, but I have just had my second S lens fail and am not impressed. I had a quick session with the S 007 last weekend and was all excited about the S system. Back down to earth this morning with my 30-90mm whirring limply before dying. It followed my 70mm CS with the same symptoms - no AF. Gives you an impression that the lens AF technology is poorly designed, unreliable and will fail at some point. As with other users these lenses have been cared for, stored in dry-cabinet and low shutter-count. I'm on S 006, latest firmware, - not that it matters.

I am sure Leica will repair it and it will come back as new, I expect nothing less. However, until there is a statement from Leica on what causes the problems and how to pre-empt them, I would hesitate to invest further in the S-system. There are simply too many failures. 

 

P.S. 2 failed / 6 lenses = 33%. Not to mention the H adapter that had to be replaced. Pretty poor.

[ynp]

Feel for you.

 

And we see the stories describing how great the customer service is, how positive was the experience of interaction with the most friendly Leica personnel, how sending the latest equipment back to repair gave time to get back to the M4, M5, R9 and enjoy an opportunity to shoot film while great people at Leica sort out another S-Lens. .

 

For me the 120мм is important, my 120mm. faulted and now I shoot the Contax Makro 120mm. And pray that my second LeicaS-C adapter will be recognized after the camera (S2) wakes up.

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[xiaubauu2009]

Anyway, Leica Germany Customer Service is great, however, I can't say the same as their reseller or representative at region. I asked my friend to bring the S lens and the Contax Adaptor for check up as it has some aperture closing problem and the odd recognizing issue. However, they said they can't check or they find no problem with the lens and advice me to send it myself back to Germany as it is more cost effective...

[erlingmm]

Got my 120mm back from Leica today, 3 week turnaround included transport/customs. I have 5 lenses, this is the first that failed. The lens is 120 CS about a year old, lightly used.

[Herr Barnack]

Yet another reason to go with the M system.

[erlingmm]

Yet another reason to go with the M system.

Well, I have had my problems with the M system, too, 35FLE focusing stuck, sensor issues on M9/MM, rangefinder and lenses that were badly adjusted etc. Leica has some QA problems that affects several product lines. The AF on the S lenses is probably a construction problem that may require another solution (like the sensor on the M9/MM1), let's hope they can solve it. All problems solved under guarantee anyway, no cost to the affected user.

Edited September 3, 2015 by erlingmm

[hoppyman]

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It must be very frustrating to have problems with any expensive equipment. It is a common trend in the forum for problems to be reported but people (the silent majority we hope) who don't experience any problems do not post that comment often.

 

Here is my experience with the S system so far. I bought a used S2 body from its second owner. It was reported to have 1500 actuations or so before I got it. There is no way to know that for certain of course. It was unmarked and contact with Customer service resulted in their attempt to contact the first registered owner for me so I could register it. It is now registered in my name. I bought two lenses new from authorised Leica sellers. Those are the 70CS and the APO Macro 120. I have now made about 14000 exposures over the last year with this equipment according to Lightroom.

i have not encountered a single problem with camera nor either lens.

Edited September 3, 2015 by hoppyman

[Printmaker]

I had to have the sensor replaced in my S2. The problem looked exactly like the sensor crud that my M9 developed. (This is the only case of a S2 sensor failure that I am aware of.) BUT Leica replaced the sensors in both cameras without a question and at no charge. Since I have owned 4 digital Leica cameras, I could report a 50% failure rate but that is not how I look at things. Mechanical and electrical failures will happen regardless of the cost of the equipment. I'm very happy that Leica stands behind their products and provides such excellent service.

[sortvitt]

I spoke to a veteran Leica technician yesterday on the topic. He was aware of AF lenses failing in this manner and showed me the gear/coupling that breaks. The part was rumored to have been changed to a sturdier material/design in later version, that was however not confirmed. In his view the risk of failure is higher if you store it in dry-cabinet for a longer period, take it out and shoot straight away. That was exactly how my two failures happened. His recommendation was to let the lens acclimatize after you take it out, or even better - shoot more frequently.

This fits well with reports of failures being on lenses with low shuttercounts. Hoppyman doesn't have this problem, and it looks like his lenses don't get much downtime (14,000 in a year!) which seems to be good for the equipment. My lenses are off for a check-up for any lurking failures before taking them on overseas trips, once they come back they will see more regular use.

As always the service is exemplary - but you all knew that.

[-JV-]

2 of 5 have been unusable straight out of the box. First 45mm focusing ring didn't turn at all and now cmos sensor with dead pixels and lines. I'm totally loosing faith to Leica quality control.

[hkgmatt]

 In his view the risk of failure is higher if you store it in dry-cabinet for a longer period, take it out and shoot straight away. That was exactly how my two failures happened. His recommendation was to let the lens acclimatize after you take it out, or even better - shoot more frequently.

This fits well with reports of failures being on lenses with low shuttercounts.

 

This is interesting. Although my 35mm whose AF malfunctioned was not kept in a dry cabinet, it was rarely used, so this my have been a factor.

[-JV-]

Also my S 180mm af is broken, i haven't got it fixed yet. I bought that second hand so i don't know how much it is used.

 

How much of these breakages have happened after last firmware update? That which fastened af significantly.

[bab]

Well, I have had my problems with the M system, too, 35FLE focusing stuck, sensor issues on M9/MM, rangefinder and lenses that were badly adjusted etc. Leica has some QA problems that affects several product lines. The AF on the S lenses is probably a construction problem that may require another solution (like the sensor on the M9/MM1), let's hope they can solve it. All problems solved under guarantee anyway, no cost to the affected user.

No cost but affect, 

[ravinj]

There is a cost to the user/customer - equipment cannot be used while it is being repaired which in many cases can take months.

[hkgmatt]

This is interesting. Although my 35mm whose AF malfunctioned was not kept in a dry cabinet, it was rarely used, so this my have been a factor.

I got my 35mm back after barely five weeks of repair time (including shipping from and back to Hong Kong). The repair sheet said "adjustment of autofocus", not replacement or anything. I wonder what the actual cause and its solution is.

[hoppyman]

I spoke to a veteran Leica technician yesterday on the topic. He was aware of AF lenses failing in this manner and showed me the gear/coupling that breaks. The part was rumored to have been changed to a sturdier material/design in later version, that was however not confirmed. In his view the risk of failure is higher if you store it in dry-cabinet for a longer period, take it out and shoot straight away. That was exactly how my two failures happened. His recommendation was to let the lens acclimatize after you take it out, or even better - shoot more frequently.

This fits well with reports of failures being on lenses with low shuttercounts. Hoppyman doesn't have this problem, and it looks like his lenses don't get much downtime (14,000 in a year!) which seems to be good for the equipment. My lenses are off for a check-up for any lurking failures before taking them on overseas trips, once they come back they will see more regular use.

As always the service is exemplary - but you all knew that.

I can only speak on my own experiences naturally. My S2 is used for 95% of my photography now. That is in studio and often the exposures might be in rapid sequences, perhaps 5 or so with say 3 seconds between frames. Typically I am in MF using the rear button to set/check AFperhaps each 10-20 frames. So I am not operating the AF constantly of course. I have no idea what may be the cause of the few failures that we have seen reported. I think that it is good that positive experiences be reported as well. I can only add that I have never put any equipment in a dry cabinet (my home is subtropical) and generally it gets used frequently. I am not hard in my equipment in handling of course. I just keep in a roller case, swap batteries and cards between shoots and I might have it in hand for a few hours at a time when shooting. I might shoot 400-600 frames over a half day. If it is a full day shoot I am ready to rest my arms by the end! My M system though has since been neglected until my current holiday time (now in Barcelona for their festival). I seem to have totally lost all my skills with that camera on the street now though!

Edited September 18, 2015 by hoppyman

[sortvitt]

Summicron-S 100mm just carked it, AF broken. That makes it 3 of 6 lenses having had AF break - 50%, how's that for quality. The uptime of my S lenses is just extremely disappointing, flat out un-reliable and un-profressional. The S 007 is a dream machine, just don't rely on S lenses. H-S  adapter and H lenses will be my recommended way until Leica implement a proper design. The "Goodwill campaign" is of little comfort with turnaround-time at tectonic pace and no loaners. 

[ZHNL]

I don't have any hard failure about S system myself other than focusing accuracy reported in another S thread. Now both my lenses and body were sent to Leica for adjusting focusing though I doubt they can fix it as I feel the problem I am seeing might have been the limitation of S AF itself. 

 

However, the failure did happen during my visit Leica Store SF. Their 24 S fail to AF behave exact as mentioned above, and all DNG files capture that day from their 007 are corrupted with weird color spots all over the place. I can't imagine how that feel if it happen during a professional session or remote location. 

[tom0511]

I shouldnt say it (because I am sue it will happen tomorrow) but I have 8 S lenses, some for more than 5 years and so far no AF failure.

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[ynp]

Don't sell your Contax 645 or HC lenses. I am looking for cheap users everywhere and keep then alongside my Leica lenses on every serious shoot.

I had the Leica 24S for a week, borrowed from a colleague and the AF got broken on the second day. I had to pay for the lens to my colleague, initially bought in Holland, and deal with the service myself.

I am unlucky, I know that for sure, my Makro died first, than the 24mm.