pico Posted August 22, 2015 Share #21 Posted August 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Again Pico, Upon closer inspection might what appears to be a "00" in fact be a "50"? The picture should be clear. It is definitely '00'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 Hi pico, Take a look here Small "19" beside m on distance scale Black Rigid Summicron. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 22, 2015 Share #22 Posted August 22, 2015 Hello Pico, Thank you for showing that to us. A 75mm Summilux that has a measured focal length of exactly 75.0mm should have the engraved number "50". Something similar to this occurred here on this Forum a few years ago: A person wrote that they had purchased a 35mm APO Summicron where instead of the depth of field scale showing the depth of field @ F2 it showed the depth of field @ F1.4. All of the other F stops were appropriately placed on the collar. It was explained that a number of Leitz/Leica lenses of different focal lengths or/& different apertures have shared similar components over the years. This standardization of components is done by many manufacturers of many types of products, photographic & otherwise, for a variety of reasons. The 35mm Summilux Asph & the 35mm APO Summicron share the same depth of field scale collar. The only difference in engraving is that the 35mm APO Summicron shows the depth of field @ F2 while the 35mm Summilux ASPH shows the depth of field For F1.4. The person had apparently received a lens where the depth of field scale collar for a 35mm Summilux ASPH had been inadvertantly used as the depth of field scale collar on a 35mm APO Summicron. Both the 75mm Summilux & the 90mm Apo Summicron share the same focusing collar. The difference cosmetically would be the 2 digit numbers in question. Internally: A collar that is also a spacer where the measurement in tenths is 75.0 millimeters has the same 1/10th of a millimeter difference in total length as a spacer measuring 90.0 millimeters. That is: They both have the same "0" of 1/10th of a millimeter of actual measured difference from the nominal focal length. It appears you have an actual Leitz/Leica error. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 22, 2015 Share #23 Posted August 22, 2015 A 75mm Summilux that has a measured focal length of exactly 75.0mm should have the engraved number "50". It appears you have an actual Leitz/Leica error. I'm not complaining because the build of this particular sample is outstanding; focus is right on. I wonder if anyone else has a 75mm Summilux with the same '00'. As I have written and illustrated before there are a few differences between the generations of 75mm Summilux lenses, although the optics and mechanics are supposed to be identical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Madureira Posted August 22, 2015 Share #24 Posted August 22, 2015 Lenses manufactured before about 1960 did not have these additional external engravings. Hello Michael I have that Elmarit 2,8/90 sn1649417 ( from1959?) with small 00 engraving. Best regards Antonio Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249125-small-19-beside-m-on-distance-scale-black-rigid-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=2875734'>More sharing options...
Maarten Posted August 24, 2015 Share #25 Posted August 24, 2015 To my understanding you have to add the two digit number to the target focal length to get the actual focal length of the lens. Thus: 75 + 00 gives 75.0 mm 50 + 19 gives 51.9 mm In my view 75 + 50 would make it an 80.0 mm lens. I have never seen an 50 engraving (or 40, or 30) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted August 24, 2015 Share #26 Posted August 24, 2015 That is how it works, Maarten is right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2015 Share #27 Posted August 24, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... I wonder if anyone else has a 75mm Summilux with the same '00'. ... Summilux 75mm, No. 3064xxx, Made in Canada about 1980, 1. Ed. with separate lens hood, has the same '00' engravings at the same position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted August 24, 2015 Share #28 Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) 75 summilux 1.4 German sn 35255xx from 1990 has "50" engravings right after the "m" mark under the "t" of feet. Edited August 24, 2015 by jmanivelle Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 24, 2015 Share #29 Posted August 24, 2015 … A person wrote that they had purchased a 35mm APO Summicron where ... Michael, There's never been a Leica 35 APO-Summicron. Did you perhaps mean a 35 Summicron-M asph? Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 24, 2015 Share #30 Posted August 24, 2015 Hello Pete, Yes. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted August 24, 2015 Share #31 Posted August 24, 2015 Interesting topic! My Summicron 2/50mm of 1960 doesn't have the 19, not on the outside nor on the inside of the barrel. Is has the serial number repeated on the inside, nicele engraved in white numbers. My Hektor 4.5/135mm of 1956 has the serial number inscribed by hand on the inside, as was custom with many older lenses. And it also has "135,5" inscribed inside the barrel, apparently also giving the correct focal length. The black Elmarit 2.8/90mm of 1966 shows "00" on the right of the letter m on the distance scale, as did the 1961 one that I sold a few years ago. Lex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 24, 2015 Share #32 Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Hello Everybody, It appears that 1960 was a "more or less" starting date for the beginning of the engraving of the 2 digit number. The actual date (ie:The 90mm Elmarit in Post #24 above - 1959) varied lens model to lens model. Some lenses never had any engravings of this type at the same time other contemporaries had them. Sometimes the 2 digit number was positioned reasonably far from the meter/feet engraving, always in the direction away from the Infinity Designation(s). The engravings recording the focal length in 1/10th's of a millimeter seem to always be at a right angle to the other engravings. Leitz/Leica Historical records are an imprecisely (For us) archived grouping of data that is not always consistent. There are also numerous exceptions, omissions & anomolys. Solving the problems is part of what makes this type of research interesting to do. People getting together to share information, like in this Thread, adds significantly to the total pool of information. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 24, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted August 25, 2015 Share #33 Posted August 25, 2015 Forgot to attach a pic. This is the Elmarit 2.8/80mm that I no longer own, but the position of the "00" is the same, and on exactly the same position. So no difference between 1961 (chrome one) and 1966 (black one). Lex Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249125-small-19-beside-m-on-distance-scale-black-rigid-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=2876703'>More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 25, 2015 Share #34 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Hello Lex, The position of the 2 numbers is often under the "feet" along side the "m" just like on your 2 lenses. But not always. In some models of some lenses the 2 numbers may be placed further to our right away from the feet/meter engravings as we look at the photo in your Post just above. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 25, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted September 7, 2015 Share #35 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I checked all my older lenses apart from the ones I already mentioned and found similar indications. - Elmar 2.8/50mm (1961): the '19' appears on the right of the 'm' of the meter scale, and under the word 'feet'. - Elmar 4/90mm (II) (1963/64 with serial number of 1962): '00' right of the 'm' and under 'feet'. - Tele-Elmar 4/135mm (1966): it says '60', apparently referring to the actual focal length of 136mm. - Summicron 2/50mm (III) (1968): '9' appears on the right of the 'm' and under 'feet'. On the optical cell by hand engraved '19' and also '51/9 R'. - Summilux 1.4/50mm (II) (1981, but engraved 1913-1983): to right of the 'm' and under 'feet' engraved '13', referring to a focal length of 51.3mm - Tele-Elmarit-M 2.8/90mm (1984): '00' on the right of 'm' and 'feet', at some distance. - Elmarit-M 2.8/135mm (1985): '55' on the right of the 'm' and under 'feet', referring to actual focal length of 135.5mm. Interestingly none of the 35mm lenses that I have or used to have shows a number like the one mentioned. Best regards, Lex Edited September 7, 2015 by sandro Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted September 8, 2015 Share #36 Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Hello Sandro, I don't think any of the lenses with focal lengths less than 50mm are engraved with the 1/10ths of a millimeter. Could you tell us some more about your: Summicron 2/50mm (III): '9' ? It would appear to be missing a digit. Best Regards, Michael Edited September 8, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 8, 2015 Share #37 Posted September 8, 2015 These small digits are also on very recent lenses... here are my Elmarit M 90 (3.8xx.xxx - 1997) an Summicron M 90 (3.6xx.xxx - 1995) : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And two 135 2,8 one at the start (1964 - 2.0xx.xxx) and the other at the end (1993 - 3.6xx.xxx) of its lifecycle : Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And two 135 2,8 one at the start (1964 - 2.0xx.xxx) and the other at the end (1993 - 3.6xx.xxx) of its lifecycle : ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249125-small-19-beside-m-on-distance-scale-black-rigid-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=2884741'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 8, 2015 Share #38 Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Sandro has a Summilux with "13"... while mine (1.88x.xxx) has a "14"... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ... while my Tele Elmarit 90 is surely older than Sandro's one (not a "M") but it too has the "00" ... and don't bore you with a picture of my Summicron 50 (1.9xx.xxx) which has its common "19" in the usual position "close to m - under feet". Edited September 8, 2015 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ... while my Tele Elmarit 90 is surely older than Sandro's one (not a "M") but it too has the "00" ... and don't bore you with a picture of my Summicron 50 (1.9xx.xxx) which has its common "19" in the usual position "close to m - under feet". ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249125-small-19-beside-m-on-distance-scale-black-rigid-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=2884747'>More sharing options...
sandro Posted September 8, 2015 Share #39 Posted September 8, 2015 Hello Sandro, I don't think any of the lenses with focal lengths less than 50mm are engraved with the 1/10ths of a millimeter. Could you tell us some more about your: Summicron 2/50mm (III): '9' ? It would appear to be missing a digit. Michael, yes I made a mistake, because of course on the Summicron 2/50mm (III) it says '19', which is also engraved by hand on the inside. I don't understand the meaning of the 'R' which is carved on the black fitting of the optical cell. Lex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted September 8, 2015 Share #40 Posted September 8, 2015 Luigi, thanks for your information. The case of our Summilux 1.4/50mm lenses shows that differences occur. Lex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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