35 35 35 ! Help me with the mind boggling versions of 35mm lenses

[ShivaYash]

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Dear all,

 

Perhaps I am being a little dim but I need some help with Leica's 35mm lenses.

 

So far I know the following:

 

Version I '58-'69

Version II '69 - '71

Version III '71-79

Version IV '79-'97

Version V '97 to date

 

Only the last model, and the current one are ASPH, correct? Is this current version also known as the FLE, or does that only apply to the f1.4 model? What is all this double ASPH stuff? Super rare and massive??

 

Ken Rockwell gives the IV a hard time, saying its crap wide open, but this is nonsense, I have it and find it to be sharp. He also saids how bokeh is difficult on a 35mm... no idea what he is talking about.

 

However, would anyone on here suggest getting the V - seeing as I already have the IV? I like the IV but do what something sharper. Am toying with the idea of the 'lux but the weight!

 

Many thanks,

[rickp13]

hello shiva

 

at the top of the forum page, you'll see a tab called ''WIKI".     i use it as my online reference to leica lens and camera questions, and believe it will be a big help to you in figuring out the differences in lens generations; using serial numbers to determine approximate year of manufacture, etc.   have a look here:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M_Lenses_x_Focal_Length

 

good luck

 

rick

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[Ai_Print]

I have the 35 1.4 FLE, it is pretty much my desert island lens, I use it on an M6 & M240 and it is stellar on both.

 

The FLE is only 10 grams more than the one before it, the 35mm 1.4 asph. While the out of focus rendering on the FLE is not as nice as the regular Asph, it is good enough to where if you are mainly concerning your self with what is actually important in the photo, the in focus part, then the rendering is not really a bother.

 

Like the regular 35mm 1.4 asph, the FLE is not a small lens but handles well and is easier to take on and off the camera due to it's slightly larger diameter. The focus is heavier than most M lenses so I put some clear griptac on mine that makes it a ton easier to focus.

 

I have had the crons too, V2, V4 and the asph and while all great for their size, I prefer my one and only 1.4 M lens to be a 35 and the FLE is it in spades.

[adan]

Your list is correct - but only covers the f/2 lenses (Summicrons).

 

You are correct that only the v.5 (current) lens is ASPH. It is NOT FLE (that only applies to the current f/1.4 (Summilux) lens - a whole different product).

 

Double ASPH - does not apply to f/2 lenses. Leica's first attempt at an Aspherical 35 f/1.4, about 1990, used two aspherical surfaces. That was prior to the development of the current molding technology for aspherical surfaces, so there was a very high production failure rate (lens elements that had to be thrown away due to production flaws). Cost more to make than they sold for. Expensive mostly because it is a rare collectors' item. Redesigned after about 2 years as the first 35mm f/1.4 ASPH, with one molded aspherical element - and about the same mass.

 

KR is a pundit - his data is usually correct, but his opinions aren't all that reliable. By "bokeh is difficult on a 35mm" I'd guess he simply means that wide-angles just don't blur the background as much as a portrait lens - inherently they have more DoF and much smaller blur circles at f/2 than a 75 or 90. So bokeh character is not as important a feature.

 

I also use the 35 v.4. I've tried everything else, and won't use anything else. The v.4 is the sharpest in the center @ f/2, but in typical 1980's Mandler-design style, gets quite fuzzy in the corners. The v.5 ASPH has improved corner performance at wide apertures, and more contrast, but has slightly less resolution in the center @ f/2. The v.4's f/2 bokeh (what little there is) is "busier" and more jumbled - so-called "bright-ring" style. That goes hand in hand with the excellent center performance and double-gauss design. But it is called the "King of Bokeh" - at medium apertures - for good reason. The f/2 ASPH's (v.5) bokeh is smoother at f/2, however.

 

One last point on the 35 Summilux ASPH (FLE or non-FLE) - among the 35mm lenses, it is the only one with virtually perfect coma/astigmatism correction. Photograph something like Xmas-tree lights, anywhere in the frame, and they will be sharp points, even @ f/1.4. The other 35s (including the 35 Summicron ASPH) will turn the lights into butterfly shapes to one degree or another.

 

Attached images all with 35 v.4

 

Man wearing budgie - "bad" bokeh mode - f/2 - lots of jumbled doughnut rings, and doubled lines (see brim of pith helmet, and background twigs lower left)

Wedding hug - "King of Bokeh" mode - f/5.6 - smooth bokeh with good subject/background separation and "3D" look.

Detail - bright lights in a picture corner acquire "wings" from coma and astigmatism aberration @ f/2 - which is why the lens tends to be soft in the corners overall, and contributes to the "confused" bokeh in the corners.

 

Nevertheless, still my favorite. Best resolution of all (in the center, where it counts) and long 1980's tonal range.

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[Bill Livingston]

Thank you Adan!

 

That was the best explanation of the characters of these lenses I have read... your point about the v4 'at medium apertures' cleared up something that had eluded me for a long time... Why was the v4 considered the 'King of Bokeh'...?

 

I hadn't thought there was anything special about it fully open when looking at other peoples examples... which is where I was looking.... your post has meant I finally understood!

Edited August 18, 2015 by Bill Livingston

[ShivaYash]

Thanks so much. There is such an incredible amount of knowledge of this forum! I love my v4 and know this King of Bokeh strap line is misunderstood. Personally I really like it at f4 and did not realise it really begins at f5.6. So for someone who wants to shoot wide open, and wants sharpness, I'm guessing the FLE is the one to go for.

[jdlaing]

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Thanks so much. There is such an incredible amount of knowledge of this forum! I love my v4 and know this King of Bokeh strap line is misunderstood. Personally I really like it at f4 and did not realise it really begins at f5.6. So for someone who wants to shoot wide open, and wants sharpness, I'm guessing the FLE is the one to go for.

That would be a good guess. Or the version before the FLE.

[ShivaYash]

Thanks. What's the Leica number for the pre-FLE? How do I tell it's pre or post?

[BjarniM]

Your verdict about the Summicron-M 35 mm Version 4:

 

Best resolution of all (in the center, where it counts) and long 1980's tonal range.

What/which is 'all'? Please define 'all' in this particular matter.

 

Could you please explain why you are saying this, and what it's based on?

Edited August 18, 2015 by BjarniM

[ShivaYash]

Your verdict about the Summicron-M 35 mm Version 4:

 

 

What/which is 'all'? Please define 'all' in this particular matter.

 

Could you please explain why you are saying this, and what's is based on?

See above. It's a subjective opinion. His explanation is very comprehensive.

[jdlaing]

Thanks. What's the Leica number for the pre-FLE? How do I tell it's pre or post?

11874. There is no "post". The FLE is the current model.

[ShivaYash]

11874. There is no "post". The FLE is the current model.

Thanks. Yes that is what I meant. Ta very much.

[bocaburger]

I currently have an f/3.5 Summaron in LTM, CV 35/2.5 in LTM, Summicron v.3 and v.4.  I used to have an ASPH Summicron and ASPH Summilux.  I rarely used the latter wide open, and it was larger and heavier due to the added stop.  So I sold it.  Likewise the ASPH Summicron I sold because it was larger and heavier than the v.4 and for the price difference it wasn't knocking my socks off.  Currently the v.4 is my go-to 35 and most used.  The v.3 is very nearly the same in performance, mine is cosmetically challenged to some degree, so for what I could get for it I choose to keep it as a backup since the v.4 is now twice as much as what I paid for it a few years back.  The CV is a dandy little lens too, with remarkable performance and an incredible bargain compared to Leica lenses.  The Summaron is no slouch either, but definitely lower contrast than the later lenses.  At one time I had an f/2.8 Summaron, also a nice sharp lens but somewhat lower in contrast.  The only Leica 35 I truly disliked was the pre-ASPH Summilux.  The performance at f/1.4 was underwhelming, it flared a lot, and it had a weird filter arrangement. 

[uhoh7]

Don't forget the incredible Zeiss M 35s

 

ZM35/2.8 widely loved.

ZM35/2 one of the best.

ZM 35/1.4 Spectacular.

 

Voigtlander is about to let loose a new ultron, which may be exceptional, and while it's a beast, the fastest 35 ever made is an M lens, and has, to my eye, a gorgeous and unique look...the big ol CV 35/1.2, which will take a lowly M9 into the darkest of the dark

 

But I might sell my soul for a v1 Cron, sans googles LOL

Edited August 19, 2015 by uhoh7

[ShivaYash]

This was taken at f2 and I find the bokeh quite pleasing wide open. Version IV. Maybe I've just got the bug and want to spend money and acquire more lens like the ASPH, just for kicks. Question is, will be 'better'? ;-)

 

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[ShivaYash]

Sorry, here is a larger copy.

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[ShivaYash]

35 'cron (IV) - does the bokeh look 'confused' in this shot? In particular I mean the rug. f2 at 1/350 ISO 400

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[wattsy]

35 'cron (IV) - does the bokeh look 'confused' in this shot? In particular I mean the rug. f2 at 1/350 ISO 400

 

 

Yes, but it would also look a bit "confused" using the ASPH and Summilux FLE at that kind of aperture (though maybe not quite as noticeably so with the Summicron ASPH).

 

I like the look in your playground photo – IMO you shouldn't be any hurry to move from your v.4 Summicron.

Edited August 21, 2015 by wattsy

[Exodies]

The cat looks confused; can't tell about the rug, it's blurred.

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[ShivaYash]

Yes, but it would also look a bit "confused" using the ASPH and Summilux FLE at that kind of aperture (though maybe not quite as noticeably so with the Summicron ASPH).

 

I like the look in your playground photo – IMO you shouldn't be any hurry to move from your v.4 Summicron.

 

Thanks, I've only been shooting with this lens for 12 years so still getting to know it, and only been shooting FF for the past 25 days. I'm not selling the old girl anytime soon.

 

With best wishes,