New M-P, already dusty :-(

[satijntje]

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Hi,

today I received my new Leica M-P Safari.

Made some test shots, F16 and ISO-200, just shooting in the air.

It seems that the sensor has already caught dust particles (bottom right part 3 spikes, and one at the top left side). 

Strange, the box was sealed!

 

I will try to arrange a date with Leica CC for sensor cleaning.

It's not really a problem, the Leica factory is not that far away, and my kids have holidays, so they can do a factory visit while I can look around in the shop :-)

 

John

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Edited July 29, 2015 by satijntje

[DirkR440]

I had the same problem with my M-P, but I have a dealer here in Zürich. So I think you have to send it back to the dealer for a cleaning.

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[Adam]

Had the same problem. Bought mine a week ago and noticed dust on the sensor, but it was too late to return when I noticed it. I started reading on the forum here about dust and realized no need to return it, unless the sensor is actually damaged which is unlikely.

 

Instead, I turned on dust cleaning mode, took a Giotto's rocket and whilst holding the camera facing down blew the dust off. Did another test shot and saw that most of the dust is gone. The one that is left does not  seem to be in the same place which tells me these are not permanent spots.

 

I think you can have it wet cleaned at a Leica certified point. I realized it is overkill at this point since as I understand there is a chance lubricants from the shutter might spatter onto the sensor in early stages of use, which is when I would send it for wet cleaning. Not brave enough to do a wet clean myself. But if you read the forum many do.

 

From my 'panicky' experience I suggest to test for dust by shooting at f16 at infinity at a uniform clean surface. Blow the sensor with Giotto's rocket (not canned air) and do another test and see if the stuff is sticky or not.  If it isn't then I would not worry about it. Just clean it reguelarly.

 

If you use Capture One, like I do,  it allows  to have an LCC profile for the lens which will include dust info. The only thing you need to get is this:

 

http://www.captureonecomplete.com/uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=177&Itemid=89

 

Other than that there is the spot removal brush.

[Loren]

Just get a Rocket Blower and try that first. If that fails, buy an Arctic Butterfly.

 

Dust is a fact of life and you should be prepared to deal with as it will haunt you again and again.

 

Sending it to Leica every time you see spots is like making an appointment with the doctor to blow your nose.

[Loren]

I forgot. Are you sure the dust is not on the back of your lens? Don't ask me how I know.

[Adam]

And I forgot to add that I think in this case the bigger the blower better:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Air-Blaster-Blower-Large/dp/B00017LSPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438198860&sr=8-1&keywords=giottos+rocket+air+blower

 

The smaller ones are better for lenses.

[microview]

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But don't be tempted to use an aerosol canister of compressed air.

[jaapv]

I had the same problem with my M-P, but I have a dealer here in Zürich. So I think you have to send it back to the dealer for a cleaning.

Not at all, Leica CS Wetzlar is for all Leica owners.

[Peter Kilmister]

Don't panic, use the sensor cleaning technique as described in the manual.

 

You will need a blower. Direct it at the sensor without touching anything.

 

Remember that if the photo has a blob in the top left hand corner then the place to concentrate the blow is the bottom right hand corner. Hold the camera body face down while doing all of this.

 

Then take a sky shot to see if it has cleared. If it hasn't then repeat.

 

I hope that makes sense. It is a lot cheaper and quicker than sending to Leica for cleaning.

[Ai_Print]

I have noticed my M240 is rather adept at gathering what ever dust it can find in the area behind the lens and depositing it on the sensor.

 

I have been putting about 500-800 frames a day on it in shooting paid jobs and every night is the same routine, DL card, backup, format, canned air with no red straw on the end and blow it out. I then turn the camera off and lay it face down while it goes through the shut down cycle and give the rear LCD a few gentle taps before the shutter closes.

 

I also give a spit-less blow of air from my mouth when ever I swap lenses to clear anything that might float in there.

 

This seems to work really well. I have pretty much done these procedures with all my digital cameras since the mid 90's and have never had an issue, kept a lot of crud out of my photographs.

[Mornnb]

All digital cameras have issues with sensor dust, I've never seen a spotless sensor.

[Loren]

I have noticed my M240 is rather adept at gathering what ever dust it can find in the area behind the lens and depositing it on the sensor.

 

I have been putting about 500-800 frames a day on it in shooting paid jobs and every night is the same routine, DL card, backup, format, canned air with no red straw on the end and blow it out. I then turn the camera off and lay it face down while it goes through the shut down cycle and give the rear LCD a few gentle taps before the shutter closes.

 

I also give a spit-less blow of air from my mouth when ever I swap lenses to clear anything that might float in there.

 

This seems to work really well. I have pretty much done these procedures with all my digital cameras since the mid 90's and have never had an issue, kept a lot of crud out of my photographs.

 

What you do with your camera is your business and I don't want to be personally critical, but to be fair to others I have two observations:

 

1. Compressed air from cans is a roll of the dice. The air and can are not surgically clean inside and can contain contaminants and oils.

 

2. Compressed air in a can's velocity through the nozzle will cause a significant drop in temperature (ideal gas law) as it exits the nozzle. Depending on the ambient relative humidity this could cause condensation. Water vapor and droplets inside your camera is not a good idea.

 

3. Compressed canned air velocity could be a little brutal and uncontrollable.

 

4. Blowing from your lips, even if you can't see it, will be highly laden with moisture and bacteria. Moisture is the prime reason lenses and sensors need to be wet cleaned.

 

Moisture is a significant problem and one cause that requires a wet cleaning of the sensor.

 

Dry dust can accumulate on the sensor or glass of a lens, but can be blown off with a Rocket Blower in almost all cases. For stubborn dry dust the Arctic Butterfly will do the rest. The bond between the dust and the sensor surface is principally electrostatic in nature (van der Waals force) and a very weak bond.

 

However, if moisture gets on the glass or sensor, any dust or dirt that follows it will stick like a barnacle. The only recourse is wet cleaning, which makes most people nervous (and for some for good reason) as it is a higher risk and if not performed correctly simply pushes the dirt around. These kinds of bonds are chemical in nature (i.e., ionic, hydrogen bonds, covalent) and are much harder to break, which is why they are much more persistent and difficult to clean.

 

From my own experience I have found that once a proper wet cleaning is done and if you are careful to keep moisture out of the camera and lens, a Rocket Blower and Arctic Butterfly is about all you need. Caveats are any internal oils that migrate to the sensor or liquid contaminants that make their way into the camera may be out of your control.

 

I realize this is just my opinion that canned air is a poor tool for maintaining a dust free sensor, but I think there are some good arguments as to why canned air carries some risks and given there are other methods to achieve the same results that are safer just puts canned air as undesirable.

[Ai_Print]

They are just tools to me man, all I ever care about is getting great photographs so I use canned air in the best manner I I possibly can, clearing it with a couple of blasts, holding it level and using short blasts of air.

 

Blowing out the lens mount / shutter area with my breath ( read, not the sensor ) is a trick I use when loading 4x5 film holders. I also wet clean my sensors at least twice a month or when really necessary. Having a speck of dust or worse, a hair ruin 300-500 shots is one of the reasons I prefer to shoot film whenever I can.

 

I have tried the other methods, the blower and what not and in the heat of needing to get the shot, it's just too much futzing around with gadgets that take up room when space is at a premium.

 

I have a good long standing relationship with NPS and whenever I sell a camera during an upgrade cycle, I send it in for a clean and check. I always ask how is the condition of the sensor and mirror box and every time it is the same, they are fine.

 

Everyone is different, all I care about is the photograph and do whatever it takes to keep making them.

[Schrödinger's cat]

My very first interchangeable lens digital camera was the Nikon D1.  The very first discovery I made about my new Nikon D1 was that sensors gets dirty  I've pretty much worked my way through the Nikon line of professional bodies, with some prosumer bodies intermixed, and nothing's changed.  Digital sensors get dirty, $10,000 Leica's along with everything else.  Bummer, but that's how it is.

 

Leica says that you should only use "non contact " cleaning.  If I made and sold cameras I'd say the same thing.  It pretty much guarantees end users won't damage their sensors while cleaning if they don't clean them.  Probably eliminate a lot of warranty and public relations issues that way.

 

But I don't sell cameras, I use them.  A lot.  When I'm lucky I occasionally get paid for it.  And the more you use them the more dust you get on the sensor.  The Leica dealers may offer free while you wait cleanings, but that's not very helpful if you are in Dallas or Playa del Carmen or Cambridge or East Armpit Township somewhere.  If you're going to use digital cameras you can really do yourself a favor and extensively research the myriad methods of sensor cleaning.  Seriously.  You really need to do your own cleaning.

 

And it's dead bang simple.  

 

The first time I cleaned a sensor none of these esoteric products were available.  Thom Hogan had published a method of wrapping an appropriate material around the end of a cut off plastic knife from a fast food restaurant.  It was terribly crude and the first time I was scared to death I was going to damage the sensor, but everything turned out just like Mr. Hogan claimed it would and I have cleaned many, many sensors since.  Although I do try to use better tools now

 

If someone has developed a method which works to their satisfaction, even if it's a bit out of the mainstream, good on them.  But I recommend a quick Google search on stuff like Sensor Swabs, Copper Hill, Arctic Butterfly, gel stick, and sensor cleaning in general.  Get a feel for what seems to be the top methods people recommend and see what looks the best for your situation.  Learn to clean your own sensor and you'll never look back.  Carry a small package of cleaning stuff on vacation and do it in your hotel room.

 

My personal favorite is a bulb blower.  When I had the D1 there were no purpose made devices, so we used a baby syringe.  You had to be careful, because they might still have mold release or something inside them when purchased, but they worked fine.  Now you have the neat little things shaped like a rocket ship, miniature air compressors, and lots of real cheap eBay bulb blowers.  Use the thing to vigorously blow the dust out of the body and off the sensor.  It gets a large majority of the dry spots and even meets the Leica "non contact" requirement.  It's almost impossible to get it wrong.

 

If you have a spot that's a bit oily or for some reason can't be blown off, there's a video on the Luminous Landscape where the author tours the Leica factory.  In the video you can watch a Leica employee using a gel stick to pick dust off an M sensor.  I've read they use the Pentax marketed brand of gel stick, but I'm sure there are others.  If the factory uses it is just can't be too bad a method.

 

I like Sensor Swabs with two drops of Eclipse on them.  There's several other outfits selling similar products that are probably just as good.  I've never found any overpowering reason to try them out as Sensor Swabs work just fine for me.   Follow one of the manufacturer's demonstration videos to see how to use them.  Used anything remotely as directed you can be confident of a clean and undamaged sensor.  If someone wants to tell you about the dangers of using a cleaning solution causing damage to the sensor coating, seeping behind the cover glass, causing cancer in lab rats and contributing to global warming, smile politely and nod as you clean your own sensor, secure in the knowledge that literally millions of sensor cleanings have been safely done with this method.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Schrödinger's cat

[ECohen]

That is a nasty hunk in your new camera. 

 

Dust used to make me crazy, really crazy......in my opinion this an area of digital photography I have learned to let go of. I try to shoot at wide f/stops and use the clone tool or healing brush. 

 

Funny by letting go ,there is a lot less dust that bothers me and for those specks that do there is PS. For me a few minutes in PS to  clean up a sky is safer than cleaning my sensor. And I always feel I'm just moving the dust around when I clean?

 

I also really think twice before changing lenses. I hate having to think/work this way but dust is a fact of our digital life. There is no such thing as a dust free sensor.

 

What's everyone else doing...... cleaning yourself........ sending it out....... or getting better in Photoshop?

[jmahto]

Adding to my two cents... yes, rocket blower removes "most" dust spots but if you have very few spots then it simply rearranges them. This is why I have stopped using rocket blower regularly. My current process every six month (or before any photo trip) is as follows:

 

- First check how dirty the sensor is. I check with the aperture I use (like f/5.6) most and do not bother about dust appearing at f/16. I also don't bother about dust appearing in lower half of the frame. Only the top ones show up against sky. This analysis saves me from spending time in extensive cleaning.

 

- If there are too many spots then I use rocket blower to get number of spots down. I check again and sometimes it passes the first test and I am done.

 

- If there are some stubborn spots that are troubling then I find the approximate location on the sensor and simply sweep it to the corner gently with size 1 paintbrush (washed and dried before).

 

- Check again.

 

This works perfectly. In my nine month of M240 ownership I have cleaned it twice (I do change the lens quite frequently). It works for me because I am not that crazy about spotless sensor.

[bocaburger]

I honestly can't remember the last time I wet-cleaned a sensor, but the swabs I have are APS-C leftover from a Canon 20D I sold several years ago.  I have some Smear-Away (I think it's called) and some other more gentle all-purpose solution from the same company.  I know I never wet-cleaned my 5D's or M8 or M9, and my 2 M240's dust location routine shows no specks after about a year of use on one body and 6 months or so on the other.  I change lenses when I need to, taking only the precaution to make sure the camera is switched off, shield the open camera against the breeze with my body, and effect the lens change as rapidly as possible without being ridiculous and risking dropping a lens.   Frankly, dust on slides/negatives was a much more bothersome affair to me than on digital sensors. 

[edwardkaraa]

There will always be dust on the sensor. The question is how much is too much. When it gets too much, a quick swipe with premoistened sensor swabs plus is all what it takes.

[satijntje]

Got the Giotto blower.

Lens detached, camera in sensor cleaning mode, upside down, a few blows with the Giotto and the sensor is perfect again.

No need to travel to Wetzlar.

Thanks for the advice.

Shooting can continue!

 

John

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[Loren]

Excellent!